Library of Treasures suggestions, anyone?

Happy? Nah, I'm quite miserable. Hopefully the hatred you've been launching at me and other staffers was reflected to some degree, though, so you know what it feels like. I must have failed on that endeavor, though. It wouldn't even have been a good idea if it worked.

And you can rather easily notice I'm speaking civilly with others who disagree with me civilly. I'm just sick of being demonized for attempting to make suggestions to improve HC.

If that's the case, why are you angry? The Mount treasure only affects Mounts. Joking aside, you aren't paying more for an ice phoenix than you were before, so I am doubly confused.

My better judgement suggests I should only answer that with an emoticon. You're shoving words in my mouth again, and it feels like you're demonizing me as if my only remote intention is to make you quest more. I've already stated several times that (a) I don't know the exact specifications of Luna, and that (b) certain unique mounts would be better off being taken up in a unique way.

Clearly, I could not possibly have meant at any point that I assumed I knew and calculated every possible weakness and strength of every possible mount anyone could ever come up with. That much should be obvious, right? :\

But, yes, from those specifications clearly Luna is not more powerful than a "motherfucking dragon."

Are we really complaining about having to roleplay 8 quests for a freaking dragon? I feel like the system worked fine. I mean you get the discount for P5, which you should probably be forced to have to make a damn dragon loyal to you. o.0

Isn't the point of this system to roleplay so you can get things that makes the roleplay more interesting and fun? A P5 Goron with Fire Enchantment would be fun but I would have to pay out the ass for it. Powder Kegs are fun on Wizards, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to complain because I have to pay extra for them.

However I do feel like the system needs some slight modifications. How would it sound to also add crippling weaknesses that deduct the mount score. Like an Undead Horse, weak against fire. BP's ice phoenix, weak against fire. And other mounts that have reasonable weaknesses. It might balance the system more, and cause the price reductions that everyone wants without actually having to modify the price. There can of course be other weaknesses if any can be thought of.

But overall, I like the idea. The structure makes me way more interested in mounts. Everyone needs to chill out and let Guy suggest something without biting his head off. Like it or not he is quite possibly the most reliable "staffer" we have when it comes to getting stuff done and thinking of creative ideas. The site would be at a great loss if he decided to leave, so I would appreciate it if everyone would show him due respect and not to flame him when he comes up with something you don't like.


Edit: Furthermore I would like to bring up something from the past, Toko once told us in the cbox that versatile mounts could not travel over the ocean to an island. I feel like this should be rectified with a possible mount score modifier.

Oh PC. Flattery will get you nowhere, but it's still nice to hear.~ I agree with most of what you've said, but have some discrepancies with what I've quoted below.

Yes, you're exactly right. There are many, many possible weaknesses and strengths which the proposed system doesn't consider. Although it should be noted that negative modifiers should not counteract positive modifiers at a 1:1 ratio. Every pen-and-paper RPG with character designing features make sure of that, for good reason.

Any sharp player will logically take penalties in the areas that are less important, or actively seek to negate or avoid those penalties, while they of course take bonuses which are the most relevant and seek to enhance those bonuses whenever possible.

For example, having a weakness to both fire and lightning seems like it might be a big penalty (-2) but how often does even a combat-heavy carry come in contact with lightning or fire? This is all the more enhanced when the player has control over what they fight; I could easily go through six classic dungeons without even seeing sparks and avoiding fire like the plague.

That said, weaknesses should be taken into consideration, but weaknesses to damage from certain, very specific sources don't alone seem worth an entire -1 unless one moderate attack from the source is practically instant death... It's hard to be incredibly specific with something like that, but unless anyone comes up with something else, I'll see how I can involve that in the modified modifiers (which I'll hopefully post within the next few days, ideally after more feedback, and responses from Raz and the others who've already posted).

...What, why? I'll have to talk to him about that, because it seems a bit odd.

I think he was trying to make boats a more prominent feature. Essentially the birds or water creatures would tire out and need a rest. Which is logical if you think about it. But an enormous dragon should be able to fly quite a distance without tiring. It's kinda fits in the mount score. You want the beast to be able to fly long distances without being winded, you pay more for it. I think another reason why he said no flying mounts was because he was touting the unstoppable pirate army whose leader is stronger than Ganondorf. And theoretically flying mounts (with appropriate cloud cover) would be a way to completely and totally avoid the scourge of the Hylian Sea.

Also I wasn't necessarily faltering you as much as I was trying to ensure you how important you are to the site(because from the looks of your posts, you seemed to doubt in some instances)

Furthermore the weaknesses, you are very right about that. It is hard to make a system period that can't be abused. I would say that the modifier could be on a case by case basis. But it seems like that is what you wish to get away from so the players aren't affected by "Circumstance of Chance" (as in having different people with different view judging the mount)

Oh, yes, the mount revamp was heavily influenced by cloud's suggestion in this very thread. (That means you can go rage at him. <3)

I talked to him about it, and he says it's fine if mounts cross the great sea... although I would say flying mounts might need to find places to land, sporadically.

Oh. Well, thank you.

Exactly. It doesn't help when words like "weakness to fire" can be taken so subjectively... but I'll try to brainstorm on it sometime later this week.

Well we could always say that to get a modifier it would have to be a crippling weakness. As in it touches fire and it dies. or we. Kinda like a dodongo/dragon in maybe an icy climate since they are obviously cold blooded.

I'm a little late but...

Okay, perhaps I was unclear about this one. I suppose what I was trying to say was that I like it but that mounts and PCs are fundamentally different creatures, and that therefore a mount would be expected to do some things that a PC can't, and vice versa. As such limiting a mount's special abilities to just the Library Treasures seems a little incongruous. For example, let's say I wanted a Chuchu Golem or even just an abnormally large Chuchu as a pet, so it would be about PC size. Normally Chuchus can split up when you cut them, for example, but there is no such modifier for this, so the best I could do would probably be to give it ChuChu Summoning, but with PWC 2 it would only be able to split up twice, despite being PC size, which normally entails it could split up more times. Or, if I wanted it to be an electric Yellow Chuchu I would have to get it Thunder(which I cannot do), despite the fact that the electricity wouldn't actually travel any farther than its body. Maybe a +X Special Properties/ Abilities modifier could be added, and the cost would be decided upon by the mods at large depending upon the exact abilities?

But, anyway...

Yes, that actually is what I was suggesting. For example a large mansion would only be able to be bought with Rupees, or a tamed and broken horse would be only available for purchase using rupees, whereas special mounts or wild mares, for example, could be gained with XP. In addition the off-hand Curiosity Shop comment I made in the cbox a while ago was for a suggestion about a shop, related to a marketplace, where PCs could come in between rps to buy Standard Treasures at inflated prices, using only rupees and perhaps the cost always being at PWC 2/2/2, or at, say, 10-20% higher than usual, whichever price would be higher for that case. The treasures gained in this way could not be used in rps that were already in progress at the time of purchase, and could have a chance of being malfunctioning models, such as a clawshot having a chipped claw that can't grip very well. In essence if a Curiosity Shop were to come about it would be a quick but rather unreliable alternative to actually finding treasures in quests.

...Of course these are both just ideas, and the Curiosity Shop is an ill-conceived errant thought at best so if they're stupid go ahead and shoot them down.

Ok, for the negative modifiers, why are we limiting ourselves to elemental damage multipliers? There's so much more that can be done; hell we could do vulnerable to blunt/cutting weapons without straying too far from that idea. There's also, say:

- Easily fatigued: the mount cannot travel long distances (exact distance up for debate) and cannot participate in drawn out battles or other strenuous activities without resting part-way through. Not doing so leaves it exhausted and vulnerable to danger, as well as losing most powers, until it has rested.

- Enraged: Under some common condition, such as bright light, loud noise, seeing a specific colour, etc. The mount flies into blind rage and attacks the source of it's rage or, if it cannot reach it or it was destroyed, it simply attacks everything else nearby which can include it's owner and party. After about 20 minutes, or being heavily restrained, the mount returns to normal. There is no benefit to this rage, it in no way increases stats and does not allow it to do something it otherwise wouldn't be able to.

- Phobia: The mount has a extreme fear of some common stimulus or thing, such as water, light, hylians, etc. and will refuse to willingly approach the object of it's fear and if forced into proximity will begin to panic with appropriate results. Even after the stimulus is removed it will remain nervous for a variable amount of time, depending on time spent close to it and distance between them.

- Crippling injury: The mount has suffered some catastrophic injury, due to battle, accident, poor genetics, etc. that it has never recovered and has lost the use of some part of their body, or may be missing the part altogether. It may be incapable of walking, lack the ability to use one of it's arms, be deaf, etc. Many things may count for the injury, but must be judged to be appropriately detrimental to the mount and it's abilities.

- Ferocious Appetite: May only be taken for large mounts. The mount is forced consume several times the food that a similarly sized monster would, and the food must be appropriately uncommon (cattle as such is okay, but no having an appetite for grass or tree leaves o.0 ), to the point no less than 3-4 full-sized cows will satisfy the mount. If it cannot eat in a day, it will begin to lose it's strength, powers, etc. until it does eat. Finally, it starves in 3 days if it has been unable to eat at all during them. (Maybe want to add a sentence or two that says it can't eat moblins or the like, just to keep up the difficulty.)

Any of the above may be removed, however the user must RP the "Cure" being applied and pay for it as if it was treasure with the cost equal to the difference between the old and new mount costs. If this brings the points up enough, the mount may begin to occupy a major treasure slot.

These are just off the top of my head and I could break out my pen-and-paper RPG rulebooks and take stuff from there, even the Anima one if it comes down to it (Tsu knows all the shit that can pulled from THAT). These are just suggestions and might not really work, so comment.

PS: People, the drama here is getting too much. I know I've caused some in the past but it's just getting all too common. Why can't you people just use the PM system? Hell at least the Cbox isn't permanent, if just as public.