A potential fix to Rupees & Professions

...So. There's a slight problem with rupees right now. Their only real purpose is helping to purchase treasures which exceed 60 rupees. Most characters have at least a 4 in one aspect of PWC, and assuming they focus on treasures of that aspect, will rarely find much use for rupees outside of major treasures or custom treasures. (And custom treasures don't even seem to happen too often, though thankfully they're more common now than before.)

This issue is made all the more apparent with professions (goddamn fucking professions), rupoors, and other means of earning nothing-but-rupees, as opposed to quest-rupees which go towards a treasure reward. If underdogs/honored hylians become a thing, it will nonetheless still be an issue for those of us who chose for paragon characters. I would like to fix this, as follows.

Part of what I would like to do is make professions more profitable, without actually improving their rupees-per-quest, but instead enhancing their ability to craft treasures of a given field, and enhancing the rate at which their profession progresses. My aim in these changes is to fix the apparent issues, without making anyone suffer who has been pursuing a profession until now.

---

Profession Points
Instead of gaining each new level as one bulk treasure, you can submit any number of rupees gained during a quest towards your next level. For example, you just reached 5th level of your profession. That puts you at 0/60 PP for 6th level. On your next quest, you submit 50 rupees to 6th level, putting you at 50/60. On your quest after that, you can submit another 10 to reach sixth level, or even 30 to end up with another level and 20/70 for 7th level. You would still be unable to advance multiple levels of a profession in one quest, however, unless you possessed the Business ability.

Furthermore, any rupees you gain from that profession during that quest can be immediately be transferred back into profession's points for that same profession. Normally, if you remember, profession rupees can only be turned into pure rupees (instead of treasure rupees).

---

Crafting Profession Buffs

Current Crafting System (open) Current Crafting System (close)

If it is a general crafting profession, such as blacksmith, armorer, or woodworker:
- At Lv1, any reasonable number of common-tier items falling into the user's profession can be freely crafted for free during role-play.
- At Lv2, the user may start imbuing common-tier items with a single treasure of the [Material] field, at the cost of the material itself. This can be done either on the item's crafting, or if it already exists. (Materials give otherwise mundane and common items a unique effect, such as Goron Iron's ability to rend the blade of a sword virtually unbreakable.)
- At Lv3, the user may start imbuing magic-tier items with a single treasure of the [Material] field, at the cost of the material itself. This can be done either on the item's crafting, or if it already exists.
- At Lv5, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 1/1/1.
- At Lv6, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 2/2/2.
- At Lv8, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 3/3/3.
- At Lv10, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 4/4/4.

If it is a specific crafting profession, such as bladesmith, bowyer, or statue-sculptor:
- At Lv1, any reasonable number of common-tier items falling into the user's profession can be freely crafted for free during role-play. Additionally, the user may begin imbuing common-tier items with a single treasure of the [Material] field, at the cost of the material itself.
- At Lv2, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 1/1/1. Additionally, the user may start imbuing magic-tier items with a single treasure of the [Material] field, at the cost of the material itself.
- At Lv4, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 2/2/2.
- At Lv6, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 3/3/3. Additionally, the user may begin imbuing common-tier and magic-tier items with up to three treasures with the [Material] field per item.
- At Lv8, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 4/4/4.
- At Lv10, any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted for a price assuming 5/5/5. If the user already has a 5 in the specified area, then the item can be crafted at 50% of its 4/4/4 cost instead.

Proposed Crafting System (open) Proposed Crafting System (close)

If it is a general crafting profession, such as blacksmith, armorer, or woodworker:
Lv1: Any reasonable number of common-tier items falling into the user's profession can be crafted for free during role-play. Any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted at a 1/1/1 price.
Lv2: Any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted at a 2/2/2 price
Lv3: Any craftable items can be imbued with a single [Material] treasure.
Lv4: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 3/3/3 price.
Lv5: Nothin'.
Lv6: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 4/4/4 price. Any craftable items can be imbued with 2 [Material] treasures.
Lv7: Nothin'.
Lv8: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 5/5/5 price.
Lv9: Any craftable items can be imbued with 3 [Material] treasures.
Lv10: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 50% of its 4/4/4 price.

If it is a specific crafting profession, such as bladesmith, bowyer, or statue-sculptor:
Lv1: Any reasonable number of common-tier items falling into the user's profession can be crafted for free during role-play. Any magic-tier item falling into the user's category may be crafted at a 2/2/2 price. Any items the user can craft can be imbued with a single [Material] treasure.
Lv2: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 3/3/3 price.
Lv3: Any craftable items can be imbued with 2 [Material] treasures.
Lv4: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 4/4/4 price.
Lv5: Any craftable items can be imbued with 3 [Material] treasures.
Lv6: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 5/5/5 price.
Lv7: Any craftable items can be imbued with 4 [Material] treasures.
Lv8: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 50% of its 4/4/4 price.
Lv9: Any craftable items can be imbued with 5 [Material] treasures.
Lv10: Any magic-tier item can be crafted at 50% of its 5/5/5 price.

Considering these new buffs, however, I would feel the need to change the recently-changed Business ability. Otherwise, it might be a little overpowered, as it essentially grants everyone who takes it the ability to gain any item with 2/2/2 and imbue it with a [Material] treasure.

Coincidentally, the ability was never actually designed to make professions more profitable, as certain people seemed to believe. It was a racial ability for Business Scrubs to help give them a kick-start on a profession, which I felt other Deku Scrubs should be able to receive if they worked hard enough and truly desired it. But whatever.

---

Professional: a Major Treasure

Professional (open) Professional (close)

`Professional
Major, Original, Ability - Utility
[Professions]

40 rupees

Prerequisite to acquire & use: Lv2 in any profession

Once you have reached at least Lv2 in any profession, you automatically earn double the rupees from that profession at the end of every quest, if you would earn rupees from the profession normally. This amount gained in this way can never exceed 100 rupees.

Alternatively, you can combine several of your professions' normal rupee rewards into a single rupee reward. (For example, if you're a Lv4 Armorsmith, a Lv4 Bladesmith, and a Lv2 Bowyer, you could combined 20+20+10 rupees to earn 50 rupees per quest!) The amount gained in this way can never exceed 50 rupees. However, you cannot immediately convert more rupees for one profession than you would normally be able for each individual profession. (In the previous example, you could convert 20 rupees into profession points for Armorsmith, 20 for Bladesmith, and 10 for Bowyer. You could not, however, convery 20 rupees into 20 profession points for Bowyer, nor convert 50 for any single one of those professions.)

It is intended to be a bit overpowered, but ideal for profession enthusiasts.

---

The Marketplace
This functions as both another buff for crafting professions, and as a potential use for rupees.

Any items an individual can craft can be put on the Marketplace, a radical new system developed by a team of mage-merchants, known now as the Marketeers. Essentially what one does is submit any item into the portal managed by the Marketeers, and a price.

Through a dynamic system of magically-changing books found in at least one building within any civilized town, anyone can view pictographs of the item, a description of the basic function, the asking price, and the moniker of whoever submitted it. Should you choose to pay the asking price to a nearby Marketeer (there's at least several in every building), the item will magically come out of the book and into your wanting fingers.

...This would probably function best as another Separate Role Play Area forum. Users would be able to submit and purchase any item at any time, but they would not actually be able to receive the item in any role-play (even separate role-plays) until they actually went into a town and visited one of the Marketeers' buildings. Rupees can be received and items can be submitted at any time, however, even if that doesn't make a lot of sense. (It's to help ensure this gets more use, though.)

What makes it most helpful, perhaps, is that in addition to other players, occasionally NPCs (as controlled by an NPC) will come in any purchase items. They may even purchase common-tier items, albeit for less than 10 rupees. I can't say for certain how often this would happen; it depends on how much activity the Marketplace gets. I would assume at least one item would be purchased every week, though, with better deals being more likely choices.

Similarly, the Marketplace could be used as a "oh I got this common-tier item" excuse, as presumably there are NPCs submitting items--just not magic-tier items very often. Every once in a while, however, maybe no more than once per week, a seemingly random magic-tier item would pop up in the Marketplace for purchase as well, submitted by an NPC.

---

Dreamtwister the Shopkeeper
This is an idea I'm considering at the moment, more than actually defining in length. It would basically be the sort of thing for which you save up rupees.

...Essentially, there would be a mysterious and mystical shopkeeper who only appeared in one's dreams, if at all. He would sell fantastical feats for high prices. A random treasure, a change in gender or race, a curse on someone you hate, an alteration to your PWC, or a special golden box with violet ribbon said to contain all the world's knowledge. The twist is that, despite the immense potential of some of his tricks, none of them would be entirely predictable. All would be random (and usually determined by a RNG), and could end up as you wasting hundreds of rupees on effectively nothing, or outright buying something which hinders you. Even if he has tricks which seem foolproof or with a guaranteed effect, there would be a small chance (~5%) that they backfire.

He would, of course, always offer a "cure" if any of his tricks... go awry... albeit at several times the cost of the trick in the first place. Considering this, I might make it possible to go in debt to Dreamtwister.

I'm considering a few different options for his personality and appearance (like, you know, gender), but I'm rather certain I would like him to talk in riddles and make vague hints that he... knows more than he otherwise should....

...If possible, I'd like more thoughts on this in particular before putting more into it.

---

Rupee Fucking Riches
Just get the fuck rid of it, or at least halve the amount received to 25 or so. Apparently no one can friggin' understand, "These rupees cannot be used to purchase treasures at creation, however." Even if everyone did remember that part, it would still be a rather overpowered ability.

...Pisses me off.

I would like to say more on the subject of races and racial abilities, but Bitoko is being his usual obnoxiously-vague self with, "Oh I might be doing something with origins, which are innately tied to racial abilities, but I'm not actually going to go into anything which could even be a remote hint of what I'm planning. That is, if I'm even planing thing." As such, I'm going to wait to see if someone else fixes it before I am required to do so. I would like, however, racial abilities to be a bit more robust--even just letting players pick and choose from a small pool of racials for any given race.

---

So. Thoughts? Or anything else I didn't mention which should be fixed, since I apparently seem to be in the mood for it?

Well, as for origins, I feel they should be done away with all together. I'm sorry I'm so vague, haha, but what I'm thinking is just give starting PWC to each race and not even worry about the "origin" of a character. Some races could have multiple starting PWC, like a Hylian could have 2/1/1 or 1/2/1 or 1/1/2, while a Kokiri could have the options of 1/2/1 or 1/1/2, and a Goron perhaps only 2/1/1. Really starting areas shouldn't be restricted, because it sort of restricts peoples creativity.

Also, what about restricting races PWC? This is just an idea so I don't care if anyone calls it complete garbage, but for instance, a Kokiri can't have above a 3 or 4 in Power? Just a thought. Anyway, there you go.

That would probably be best, yeah... I don't mind it too much myself, but I know others dislike that.

No. Just no. A thousand times no. A billion times no. I would throw a hundred reasons at you, but I shouldn't have to, because no.

To elaborate on this, I think most races would have a similar limit on the [x] amount. It's just that some racial abilities might take up additional slots/points, if they're particularly potent. Others might not be an option to remove at all, if they're an innate part of the race's physiology.

Anyway, I feel the +1 PWC thing shouldn't be that much of an issue. It makes sense. Worst case scenario, someone should be allowed to attempt to make a unique character of their race which deviates from the norm. (My walking tank of muscle and destruction, Sienna, is a bit of a ridiculous character but a prime example of this. Having her without 5P just would have felt weird.)

I don't think we should restrict PWC. It seems to me like a measure of how you compare with the average of your race. Having a high or low PWC wouldn't completely discount natural tendencies. Or perhaps that's just part of the racial bonus and you can do whatever you want. I do like the idea of a dreamtwister though, it seems pretty intriguing.

On an unrelated note I'll be trying to get spoiler tags to nest. Don't touch them or things may explode.

spoiler1 (open) spoiler1 (close)

testing123

spoiler2 (open) spoiler2 (close)

hello

spoiler3 (open) spoiler3 (close)

well then.

Another test:

Just one:1ckry80p (open) Just one:1ckry80p (close)

Testing123. Plz Work.
Please?

Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler

Stuff in the spoiler
It spoils things.
Don't read it unless you want to be spoilered.
etc.

Woo.

For a lot of the things he will be doing, it would seem--I'm not sure if "overpowered" is the right term, but in one way or another it would seem--uncanny to pull off some of these tricks I already mentioned without a chance of failure. Or without a nearly-guaranteed failure. I mean, you could ask for a +1 to one aspect of PWC, but almost every time you would suffer a -1 to one of the other two areas.

As for how exactly it would work, I was expecting him to have a "shop" thread in Separate Role-Play Areas which, unlike other SRPAs, could only be accessed while your character is asleep in the main RP. You would make any necessary arrangements in the dream (SRPA forum). If necessary, Dreamtwister would pop up into the real world (the main RP thread) to make any "alterations."

The risk factor depends on the trick desired--some are obviously going to be more expensive than others, both in terms of rupees and risk. I would prefer to be the only one controlling him for the sake of consistency, but sooner or later (especially in about three months when my military training starts), I would have to leave him in the hands of someone else.

Partially because of this, and also to help prevent bias, most of the important calculations would be determined with a RNG. As with the Arena Lord, I would PM the Dreamtwister account these details. Mainly, RNG jurisdiction would include whether or not something is a success or a failure (and in some cases, to what degree). For what exactly happens on a "failure," or certain similar other circumstances I may provide possible examples for what could happen, but would ultimately want to leave that mostly up to the imagination of the twister. Partially because of that, I would always want it possible to immediately undo any effect which results (albeit with perhaps 200% the cost to create the effect in the first place; I'm now thinking it should definitely possible to go in debt, but only to Dreamtwister).

Hmmm... Looking through this thread, let me just make quick notes:

Profession buffs: Yay.

Business debuff: Wut... So in other words if someone is planning on making a character who specializes in a profession, the race is absolutely useless. Consult this for more info. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=793

Rupee riches: B'aww... I liked that perk :( I think people wouldn't believe it to be quite as OP if it wasn't with Civilian, opening up 200 starting rupees, 50 of which can't be spent at creation.

Marketplace: Sure? I don't see why not and it could provide interesting stuff. Just not sure if I'll ever actually use it.

Twister: I like the idea, but the first thing to come to mind is the ol' Razgriz hidden rolls issue.

Le Me: "Okay, I'm going to rest for the day."

Le Razgriz GM: *Hidden roll* "You're snuck up on and can't use your weapon for the fight."

Le Me: "You just totally ignored the dice for a badass scenario, didn't you?"

Ahem. Anyway. You see my problem there. If the RNG isn't done in a way that the person playing him can't just go "Oh, i WANT it to backfire." or where they can just dislike a character and have it based on that, I disagree with RNG. You'd have to find a way to make sure the roll is viewable and only able to be done once. Unless Fate Points :P

And PWC limits, by the balls of Chuck Norris, no. A P5 kikwi isn't as strong as a P5 Goron. Leave it as is.

That's all I've got for now, but thats my 1.57 Yen.

Oh. If we come up with a fair way to do RNG, how about making a Castle Town casino for gambling? Just an idea I had. Oh. Also. One more idea. We should give one more RP slot, but one that gives no rewards. It would be meant for actual characterization, character relationships, guild socials, or just faffing about.

"Absolutely useless." Unlike Civilian, it actually has other racial abilities which don't translate only into treasures at creation. You know, like being able to friggin' fly and starting with a decent treasure in of itself.

Your thread in of itself is one of many considering factors as to why rupee riches needs a nerf. I could see it continuing to exist as a racial ability perhaps in its current state, but if so, I would prefer it being able to have it fill a racial slot available to several if not all races. As you suggested, it would feel less overpowered when not paired with a Civilian Hylian's other ability.

Anyway, I could see giving Business some other sort of additional effect to compensate. Instead of whining about it--you should be smart enough to realize that it would be a bit overpowered now--you should suggest a new way to improve it.

I would personally just like to replace it with the effect of Professional, but of course, that's never going to work due to it being a Major Treasure (which would otherwise be vastly OP at that price) and Business being a racial... Got any better ideas?

It would be a great way for higher-level professionals to make profit (if they're saving up for a massive treasure or the Dreamtwister), and that is half of its purpose. The other half is for someone to be able to request an item OOC, then for someone else to craft it for them, without having to meet up IC.

Of course, it's completely optional, and there if you want it.

If someone was really that damn paranoid, I'll make sure to point out in Dreamtwister's thread that you can choose request to hold an audience in a Skype chat and roll a RNG in there--I have an app for this--for anyone and everyone who can log into Skype to see. With this method, the RNG result is pulled in real time, the roller can see it as soon as everyone else can, and the roller has no hidden way of manipulating the number beforehand.

...To be honest, I was hoping for a long time now that an actual character would build up enough rupees to open a business like this. But that hasn't happened. In the past, I was actually making slow progress towards opening a Marketplace-like business which would cost small fees to store items--with Gustav Grimm--but abruptly ended up dropping out of the role-playing world when I was in the progress of buying portals in the many numerous towns which would have made the Marketplace a possibility.

I rather dislike taking away possibilities like this from players; I want to keep even radical or long-shot possibilities open. That's the reason the ultimate reward for Classic Dungeons is truly exceptional, and also part of the reason I'm making the Dreamtwiser. Likewise, it's why I have the Arena Lord not do much unless someone nags him firsthand; I want players to take the initiative with him, which never happens. It's also why the Dreamtwister will only be able to do things players could never do, so he doesn't interfere with them potentially opening businesses to do the same thing.

That said, "stealing away" a possibility from players unfortunately seems warranted with the Marketplace, unless everyone would be willing to wait or donate to an actual character to help it open legitimately.

...Anyway, I could make a casino happen if enough people wanted it. Depending upon how it worked, though, I'm not sure how much people would use it. (Like any casino, the system would have to be designed in such a way which didn't favor the player.)

I do like the concept of this, though I'm not sure what effects count as treasures while still fitting in to the categories you've defined. What sorts of racials do you have in mind for it?

What? Tsu is saying that the second 'main RP' slot would provide no rewards other than character development, relationships, stuff like that. Treasures and racials never came up. You sure you're responding to the right thing there?

Also, I like this idea. An opportunity to do some character development without rupees piling up, but still have it be canon would be nice.

From what I understand threads like that cannot be 'finished' and therefore don't 'count.' But I could be mistaken.

You don't have to make a quest to begin or to finish a thread. RP threads can be done without reward, and you can always ask a mod to move the thread when you feel it's come to an end.

That being said, I'd enjoy seeing more of them. /support

Yeah, quests are completely optional, you don't need to do them at all. You can do the roleplaying like you said Tsu and BP, just with character building and all of that sort without having to fill out a quest for rupees.

But we're saying about the one RP per character thing. I've asked someone before when I said about a guild social, and they said it would still count as an RP that takes up your main Rp slot. What I mean is that you could have onemain Rp and one "Social" RP.

I can see that. My question is, how often would this be used? Would it be such a common happening to require a separate place? And what would be the purpose for social gatherings? The main RP area ISN'T meant to be a combat only place, or a place where only adventure happens. It's mean for all the other stuff too, social events, etc.... I just wonder if having a separate area for it would detract from the integrity of the roleplay itself and if it would be better suited to keep it in one area. It really shouldn't be too hard to plan something out a head of time and finish out RP's and all meet in a specific spot to have a social gathering. In my opinion that only adds to the RP experience because you actually have to work to get there.

EDIT: The thing I don't want is the main Rp being used only for treasure hunting and quests. It should be for all the RPing.

Tsu/Toko, I've actually been thinking about something similar to this. I think there's more of a place for this than you might think at first, and I'll make a dedicated thread for its discussion as this one is still largely about fixing Rupees and the such.

Am I the only one here who thinks getting rid of the origins system would be a really bad idea? Because it would be.

Explain you're thoughts on that RD. The way I see it, it causes more hassles than it does fix problems.