Ummm... Whatever happened to "It's just one more thing to explain to people, one more long post for people to read getting into the RP, and so on"? Even if it is easy to use, the complexity isn't zero and I don't see it really replacing anything more complicated. Nor does this really add to immersion or anything like that; as you can't just say something, you must type it and thus most feeling of immersion is taken away already, the little name and picture at the top of your peripheral vision changes nothing that way. Not too mention how many new pics everyone will need. Honestly, this just seems like more work and book-keeping for a minor detail; one I can't think of anyone that asked for. And looking at it, I really don't see how this is going to do all the things you say it will? How will this in any way help a character become their own person? Any action, word, thought, possession, skill, knowledge or ability must still be declared in some way by the player; and if there's ambiguity as to what is known by a character or who thought/said/did what in an RP that's the fault of the RPer, not the system and no system can really change that. Honestly, I'd have no problem with this being an opt-in thing, an option (actually, the reason you haven't heard from me before on this was because I assumed it would be optional and any controversy was over the confusion of RPing with those who and others who don't use the system simultaneously). Even if there was some reward attached to using or minor penalty to not (like 10 rupees an RP or something). Not to mention it feels as though you've pressed this on us without approval. I know I can't speak for anyone else, but it seemed like you didn't allow for much discussion; I first heard of this less than a week ago and you've already decided that it be mandatory for everyone. Basically, this just seems like too much work, too much complexity, and too much confusion for such a small reward (If there even is one). And this is assuming that there are no technical issues to boot. PS: After re-reading, this seems to come across as an attack on Rib. It's not, it's just that Rib has been the bearer of bad news recently so it would seem to be that way; but to clarify, this is NOT an attack on Rib, I just wanted to express and explain my displeasure at this new system and bring to light the hypocrisies and logical flaws the modding has made with this.
The above post was made in response to the News thread of the same name. Click the following link for the news thread: http://forums.hyrulecastle.org/index.php?threads/sub-accounts-rules-and-functions.2084/#post-16831
I know I haven't exactly been active for the past few weeks, and for that I am sorry. As for moving Raz's post so that it had its own thread, I felt it was appropriate that it had its own area for discussion. You, and those that have already voiced their opinions, bring up many valid points. As Ribitta has already posted in this thread (http://forums.hyrulecastle.org/index.php?threads/added-sub-account-feature-for-rp-characters.2050/), we will try our best to deal with the potential problems that may arise from this new system; this is jumping into the abyss as much for us as it must be for all of you. I think one of the greatest fears of implementing the subaccounts is that it's just "one more thing" that has to be done before we can Roleplay. In this, I can only agree, because when it comes down to it, it really is just another hurdle that has to be jumped, especially for newer members. This change is unlike many of those that we have made in the past: for example, the implementation of the Treasure Creation area. When we implemented that system, it was apparent at the time that it was something that was vital for the continuation of member-created treasures. Without it, custom treasures might no longer have had a way of being created, much less added to our Library. While subaccounts might not be necessary for the continued health of the roleplay, I do not believe that this makes it any less important. When looking at the system, it is important to keep in mind the possible benefits and to weigh them against the work that must be put in. I think that this makes subaccounts even more important: it is a change that might not be all-important, but its a leap in not only personal customization, but also in the way the site is organized and in the way roleplay is accessed. Yes, this is another thing that new members must worry about, before they can roleplay. However, I think that subaccounts are not, in and of themselves, the issue. As you have voiced in another thread, Raz, the roleplay areas could use some compressing, and the same applies to rules, lore, and other things that have been deemed "necessary" before a person may begin roleplaying. It will be our goal as staff to reduce these "necessaries" so that only that which is truly needed remains. We hope that subaccounts can be one of those things. Moreover, I feel that much of the fear of subaccounts has come from a worry that it will consume a very large amount of time, or that it will be overly complicated. While the system can be complicated, this is something that will not only become easier over time as we become more experienced, it is also only as complicated as you want to make it. As has been mentioned, subaccounts bring many customization options to the table. These options are in no way mandatory; only the subaccounts themselves are necessary. If you feel that the system requires too much input, you are free to ignore all those options: it would be perfectly fine to have just a virtually blank sub-account with little to no customization, and use it. All in all, creating such a subaccount, and using it, requires very little time: once the account is made, you can choose to post as it, easily, from a drop down box. The real benefits of this system are for staff. If this may seem selfish to you, then you'd be right; we hope that you will stick through this with us, so that we can continue to make HC a more enjoyable place to roleplay. Having subaccounts that are used allows us access to the kinds of data we never had before; like how many characters one person has that like to roleplay in a certain area of Hyrule. This kind of information could be used to improve future events, or even more. We understand that this is a transition to something completely new, and that there are many worries about difficulties it could cause. We cannot account for everything that could happen, but we will try our best to handle them before something comes up. If any issues do arise, we urge you to PM someone and we'll do our best to address the problem. In the end, this comes down to staff asking our members for help with the subaccounts; with your help, we hope to make subaccounts a worthwhile system both for our roleplaying members and for staff to use to better the site.
Question of curiosity: When am I finally going to hear if sub-accounts can be re-arranged to keep an alphabetical order or re-named if a character changes his or her name? I asked this at least a week ago and while Ribitta said he would look into it, I've only gotten a tentative answer. I need to know this before I do anything with the sub-accounts function.
Adad mentioned in the staff Skype conversation that he could likely change the code to make it list alphabetically, however right now that isn't how it is going to work. Ribs gave you a tentative answer likely because there is no concrete one. Adad may or may not be able to do this, and there is no ETA for when it will be done. For now, just assume that it is not going to happen.
Then at least tell me I can make an extra sub-account ahead of time for the character whose name is going to change. The point is kind of lost if the name at the top of the post says "Ni'Ran" but the character in the post is called "Amos."
That wont be necessary, I can change your subaccounts name if need be. We don't want the same character having two sub accounts because then it loses some of its purpose because we cannot collect accurate data from its use.
But his name will change from starting with an N to starting with an A, which means he'll have to be moved from the mid-low regions of the list to the top. (The VERY top, actually, he'd end above even Autumn.)
Then make him first with his new name, assuming he's going to have a name change relatively soon. When will the name switch happen? Here is something you can do, I just thought of this. Perhaps you should register him first as his old name, and yeah, you'll have an N at the top of your list for a while, but as soon as you're ready to change his name I'll go in and do it through the ACP and he'll be at the top of the list in his proper alphabetical place.
Wow, thats a ways off. Well, you have a few options. First, would be to make the account in the new name as I said, but I can see why that would be less than optimal. Second, is to make that character first with his N name and I can change it once he gets to that point. Third, you can put his N name in the spot it's supposed to go alphabetically right now, and hope that by the time you get through Ganon's Tower Adad has made it so they list as alphabetical.
What do I do if, by the time the name change goes through, I can't alphabetize it? I assume I can't very well throw out all the sub-accounts I have by then and start over.
While I don't RP and am not really apart of that, I have been observing this whole ordeal and just wanted to give my two cents. While this may have a lot of upside, I think that it could have been handled better by the forum staff. It was suddenly thrown on the community without any warning, and then a week later it becomes mandatory, even though a lot of users were not in favor of it. Communication is extremely important, especially when listening to your userbase. I just think that from the announcement to suddenly implementing it, the voices of the members weren't really listened to; it was a kind of a "deal with it" attitude, and that can be very degrading, even if it's a great idea. Staff didn't really do anything to alleviate people's fears, and then made it mandatory in the blink of an eye without much of any communication. That can be very alienating. I think there's a lot to be learned here, both by members and the staff in how to deal with one another and the dynamic of that relationship.
I agree with you Dark on a lot of your points, we (I) handled it poorly at the start. However, I don't feel that is entirely fair. To assume we didn't listen is inaccurate, in fact, we discussed all of the points that members brought up at great length. We asked ourselves the hard question, is it really worth it, and is it really necessary? We literally spent a few hours discussing it after the backlash we received, and came to the conclusion that it was worth it, and it was what we wanted for HC's future. The criticism we received from it was not very concrete, and mostly comprised of either "this isn't necessary", or "this is going to be a hassle". Beyond those two points, there really were not any good reasons that we should not go ahead with the subaccounts. There were a few other concerns, such as BP's concern about her two characters, and other things that we directly addressed and resolved, however there were none substantial enough for us to look at subaccounts and say "Yeah, we can't do this." On the other side of the equation, as staff we found many benefits to the subaccount system that we tried to explain to the members a few times. However, what we saw as great boons to the future of the Roleplay, some of the members failed to see them as consequential. With the only downsides to subaccounts being an idea that it "isn't necessary", and that it might be a "hassle" to set up, we felt that the positives outweighed the negatives. At this point, it is up to the staff to make what we feel is the correct decision, as it always should be. As much as we respect and consider member opinions, it is up to us to run and maintain the health of HC's RP. While this may come across as a "deal with it" attitude (which may be correct), it is something that we felt we needed to implement even with some disapproval. I hope this clears some things up.
Sorry this is a late response. I think that the next time you are to do something this drastic, perhaps post about it, then kind of lead into doing a trial run, and if you and the staff love the benefits and see how it can help the community and implement it after feedback and how you can better implement it to be more user friendly. again, not claiming to know a whole lot about it. Sorry to revive a dead issue, just giving my POV. When it all comes down to it, it's about the members. I don't think it's a matter of function, but more about how the entire thing was handled, which wasn't very well. As I said, it's a learning experience for everyone involved.
