Dungeon overhaul

So I have two suggestions for dungeons. The first one is to get more people interested in complete a dungeon. I mean honestly you do a dungeon that is typically longer than a quest and only get 20 rupees.(excluding FSA) I say move it up to 30 or maybe even 40. Don't give more than a quest or anything, I just feel it needs a little bump. It may be why not many(if any) have been completed.

Another thing that I think would just be a cool addition would be instead of one person completing
- Forest Temple
- Goron Mines
- Lakebed Temple
- Arbiter's Grounds
- Snowpeak Ruins
- Temple of Time
- City in the Sky


Let's say I complete Goron Mines and Arbiter's Grounds
while Eevachu completes Forest Temple and Lakebed
and Guy does Snowpeak/Temple of Time/City in the Sky

I feel that as a group, those three should be able to traverse the Palace of Twilight.

I just know I hate RP alone. Right now I would have to do all 7 of those dungeons and wait and wait and wait forever for someone else to do them all to so we can go to the Palace of Twilight together. Just a few thoughts.

Also how about we add decorative emblems for their signature if they beat a dungeon. Like the Mask's in MM, etc.

Seeing as this is a suggestion thread which has no need to be staff-eyes only, I'll be moving it from the Staff Forum to the Suggestion Bin. But anyway...

Firstly, it isn't 20 rupees, it's 25--exactly half that of a quest. Anyway, this limitation is in place for three reasons.

First, as you seem to have guessed, they were designed to be less prestigious than quests as to not draw people away from the main RP and its quests. I took extra care when designing the classic dungeon system that few if any would treat begin "dungeon-grinding" as so many did on HS. They are fundamentally not a part of the main role-play and should be treated as such. They are merely an additional aspect, and the primary and intended use of them is to have your character use them if he's tied up in the main role-play (which often becomes the case on HC).

Secondly, the reward is significantly lower because doing classic dungeons is much more convenient than doing quests. You could do as many as you like, simultaneously, and they don't occupy your character at all. This is yet another reason certain individuals would be attracted to "grinding" them, or why the site would begin to center around them, which is something I want to avoid.

Thirdly, the the rewards for the "super" dungeons are high, and to some extent offset the lower rewards of their prerequisites. This, combined with the other two factors, adds to why the not-super dungeons have the rewards they do. Admittedly, these super-dungeons were implanted primarily for someone to be able to work towards some ultimate goal while doing dungeons (which I've realized on HS and HC is a pretty good motivation for role-playing), but also just to give CDs a little more flavor.

Anyway, I would say the reason not many classic dungeons have been completed is the same reason not many quests have been completed since Classic Dungeons are introduced. That is, HC is relatively inactive in terms of actual role-play posts, and members are prone to fits of inactivity that leave threads unfinished. It has little if anything to do with the rewards.

Considering all of this, I would not want to push the reward significantly higher than 25. I also prefer 25 itself, as it keeps the exact same ratio from quests in easy amounts divisible by 5. The amount of rupees earned per player to per character is 4:1.

Looking over the Classic Dungeon thread, I realize I was too vague in how the prerequisites for super-dungeons work. (I was so ridiculously vague, that I only said the perquisite dungeons had to be "completed," not even necessarily by you.)

Allow me to clear something up. As long as one member of the group met all the prerequisites, he could take whomever he wants into the dungeon with him. Or at least, that's how I intended it.

Anyway, I think for most dungeons it could reasonably be changed so that the prerequisites could be "combined" across party members as you suggested. Due to the nature and rewards of Ganon's Tower and Savage Cave of Ordeals Labyrinth, however, I would prefer at least those two super-dungeons require at least one individual of the party to clear every prerequisite dungeon themselves.

I'd really like it if we could pull that off. If you or anyone else can somehow produce a decent-looking, standardized-size emblem for each of the 100+ canonical dungeons, I'd happily add them in myself. Short of having one for each dungeon, though, I think it would be best if they weren't official.

Good argument for the rupees system in place. I really wasn't seeing it from that point of view. If you use that logic it could be seriously overused to get rich quick and cause less people to rp.

Now I can see why you whould think one person should complete all of the dungeons for Ganon's Tower and all for Cave of Ordeals due to the rewards but using that logic.

Guy A does half the dungeons + Guy B does half the dungeons = neither qualified for dungeon

Guy A does all the dungeons + Guy B, C, D, E, F does none of the dungeon = they all qualify for entry

I feel that if we choose not to let those two combine dungeons to get the requirements. We shouldn't let people piggyback on someone that did do all the hard work. All for the same reason, the nature of the dungeons and their prizes.

There was something else I wanted to mention about the subject but have forgotten what it is :\ I'll post again if I remember.

Thank you. I'm glad we can agree on this.

This is true. However, I feel that if everyone is required to do ALL of the dungeons, then those two dungeons will almost always be solo-only. Perhaps again, considering the nature of those dungeons and their prizes, that is for the best?

I just thought of letting someone piggyback for those two super dungeons if they did, say, the majority of the dungeons themselves... but that still doesn't seem quite right.

Oh, and for the record, the dungeon requirements transcend individual characters. As long as one player has completed all the necessary prerequisite dungeons, even if they did so with different characters, then they can still get any of their characters into the corresponding super dungeons. The sole exception is the ultimate dungeon, which could really only be completed once, anyway... Of course, they could also have as many of their own characters as they want in each dungeon. Or at least that's how I always imagined it. Again, my description was too vague, but from now own that's how it will be, unless anyone objects.

Remember.

The thing I was going to mention was about one players other characters being allowed to piggyback but you explained that. :p

I might have an idea that will make classic runs more appealing. What if we had a Trophy Cabinet 'sticky' in the forum and the staff could hand out awards to certain role players for certain accomplishments? There could be a 'ladder' of the top five role players with the most completed dungeons, and all sorts of other things like best boss battle or something.

People love to be recognized for things, and it wouldn't create grinding I don't think, because there wouldn't really be an award beyond the rupees you get from the actual dungeon and the recognition in the sticky.

Nolan may be onto something

I like this idea Nolan, its pretty awesome.

Also, for the getting into super dungeons, what if you had one player who had done all the pre-requisites and wanted others to go with, but the others who went with only got standard rewards for doing the dungeon and did not get "recognition (as in Nolan's post) For completing it. It was more like they were sort of helping the One who had done everything accomplish the great task. Just my 2 cents.

Like a sidekick? That could work for the two big ones and make everyone happy I presume. I like it but more on the trophy room like idea. I'm completely for that idea and would love that we just need to come up with some award ideas. I would assume they would be calculated on the spot.I figured we would wait for like two or three dungeon runs before the staff decides who won the categories and then after we would talk about it after each dungeon(until that became too taxing) to see if the new dungeon had a better boss battle or w/e.

Most Creative Room/Dungeon
Best Boss fight

I completely agree with Bitoko's idea to allow in sidekicks who only get typical dungeon rewards (20+5) instead of the super dungeon rewards. It fits perfectly. Unless anyone objects, I'll be making that official.

I'm iffy, however, on Nolan's idea. When we've previously had things for "best role-play" and such, they've always fallen through. I suppose this is usually because not everyone wants to go through and read all the different role-plays... even if it's narrowed down to just parts that have been nominated (like "most creative room" or "best boss fight"). Feel free to prove me wrong, but until you do, I'd rather not be involved.

As for just keeping track of whoever's completed the most dungeons... Well, on HS, members just did that on their own. I remember a thread in which one listed all the dungeons one had completed. This allowed a bit of rivalry and bragging rights, I suppose, and was also a nice look back on your history with the site. It was a popular thread. So, that aspect of Nolan's idea could succeed, I think. (I wouldn't be surprised if at least someone started to grind just for this recognition, though.)

Sorry, quick question. Say if Chaos here completed the Shadow Temple in OoT. Would I be able to complete it at a later date, or is the Shadow Temple finished? Does this apply to all the dungeons, normal and "super" (whatever that means)?

Also, as far as the whole 'competition' thing goes: The idea of people clearing dungeon after dungeon for bragging rights doesn't really appeal to me that much. Plus, I'd know that I'd feel horrible with myself whenever I saw someone's sig with "best RP-er" or something. Maybe that's just me being stupid, but still.

I like the idea of the stamps, though- I'd love having the Shadow Medallion in my sig if I had went through the Shadow Temple. As for finding them, do we just have to find a Google Image, or is there some special way of getting "stamps?"

Sorry for bothering y'all, just wanted to put in my two pennies. See ya! ^_^

No worries about bothering us. If I complete shadow temple it is still up for grabs from someone else and acts as if it had never happened. These are not part of the roleplay just something extra that has happened in the past or in the future.

I've done searches for icons for the dungeons, and the most I've been able to find is the medallions from OoT. There are large images of say...MM's masks, but especially with earlier zelda games, there aren't any icons that I've been able to dig up. As far as normal dungeons go, I'm pretty a dungeon can be done more than once, but I don't think it can be redone by the same person. Do you know what I'm saying?

Anyway, here's what I'm thinking. Just put one or two people in charge of the Trophy Cabinet. It doesn't have to be the entire staff constantly sifting through things. Heck, I'd even be willing to take care of it if no one else wants too; it's doesn't have be made complicated. As far as reading goes, I don't think it's necessary to read something AS SOON AS it's graded and ready to go. I feel like at the beginning or end of every month-- maybe even every couple weeks-- the Trophy Cabinet can be updated.

I think everytime a dungeon is completed, the 'leader' of the thread should post in a separate 'Trophy Cabinet Submissions' thread, so that whoever is in charge has one place to read all of the threads without the mess of sifting through unfinished role plays. Even if 'awards' don't go through, a simple dungeon counter isn't that bad. With only 5 people on the ladder, it won't be a messy thread.

The only other thing I have to say is that grinding with classic dungeons will ALWAYS be an issue no matter what you do to fix it. As long as classic dungeons are in existence, they will be grinded to no end. Even small monetary gain is enough of a reward to make them grindable. It's just a fact of how classic dungeons work in the dynamic of this role play.

Quill don't worry about it, your a part of HC now so feel free to post your opinion anywhere haha.

As for "best RPer" I don't like that either. What I would rather have is a sort of system like the xbox achievement system. Meaning, you say, have a list of people in a "trophy thread" as nolan suggested with things such as "Finished the Shadow Temple" or however else we want to state it. Thats all that needs to be said, I don't want to put people higher than each other for their RPing skills, thats already done with our ranks of Newbie, Regular, and Veterans. We just need a recognition system for things completed in their RPing tenure with HC. Hope that made sense haha.

I assumed it was implied that we'd have to make most if not all of the trophies/stamps ourselves. Something like that unfortunately doesn't just fall into your lap.

I hereby nominate Nolan to be the Trophy Cabinet President.

It hasn't been an issue yet, and I want to keep it that way.

Quill asked about icons/stamps. So I was just letting him know, that the medallions are the only things I've been able to find already made.

Awesome.

The site is young. But yeah, I don't want it to happen either, I was just saying-- especially if membership numbers ever skyrocket-- it's something that is bound to happen just because of the nature of classic dungeons.

I've edited the Classic Dungeons sticky thread. It now has the updated rules on super dungeons and their prerequisites, and also now adds in a super dungeon from Skyward Sword.

I'll leave the "Trophy Cabinet" thread to anyone who is willing and able to manage it.

"Trophy Cabinet Weekly?" I'd be super happy to help Nolan with this as well.

And I just wanted to add that I like how Toko put it, like the Xbox Achievement system. Heck, I'd even love to write up some "shits and giggles" achievements people can try for when they go through the Classic Dungeons. "You used WHAT? - Defeat Ganon using only a Bottle." (You'd have to RP that REALLY freaking well.) I loved that about having an Xbox, it gave games a bit more flavor, and it didn't give anyone an edge over anyone else, since the rewards for Achievements were for looks only.

I'm totally up to making a trophy cabinet...just after finals :)