The Library

We've been talking about the LoTII for years now, and I think we need to face the reality that it may not ever happen. If, by some miracle, the LoTII suddenly becomes truly possible, great! However, I think we need to act like our current thread is all we're going to get.

I think we need to stop pushing the Library's issues off by saying "oh we'll fix it when we get to the LoTII." That's not going to cut it. The Library's a mess- we all know it's true.

Communication is key to a healthy site, which is why I'm posting this. There are a lot of bad things in the Library right now that need fixing; as Guy said, "Never keep a problem the way it is merely because it's a 'hassle' to fix it." Nothing's been done to fix the Library; worse, every time we add a treasure, the Library gets bigger. I think it's time that all of us man up and face the reality that the Library is a problem. When I say all of us, I do mean the entire site. If we do this, it's going to be a big project. The staff are going to do the work- after all, that's what we're here for- but we're going to need a certain level of understanding, cooperation, and willingness to cordially discuss the snags that WILL pop up along the way.

There really isn't a plan yet, nor is this quite "a thing." It could be, and I want it to be, but it's not yet. What I'm thinking is that the staff and I could do an almost reverse TC; we'll review each treasure and see what needs fixing. Most treasures are going to be fine. A lot will probably have price changes. I can guarantee that there'll be grammatical errors in nearly every treasure we come across. But there are going to be a few that are absolutely ridiculous, or that need some kind of function-shift. Again, I'm not sure how this'll happen. Should we bring each treasure with a change in function up to his creator and hold a debate? For each and every treasure that needs fixing? Should we make a thread and explain each change, but have each change be (except in some cases) set in stone? The question is: where do we draw the line? To hold a debate for each treasure would take a very long time, and there would be fixes that'd get dropped, but it would feel most fair, on a personal level. To explain as best we can why changes are being made would be quickest and most likely best for the Library, but there WILL be people who would feel personally slanted. Saying that we need to fix the Library is easy; answering the question of how to do it without causing a riot isn't. Because let's face it: there have been riots over treasures that are only just barely concepts. TC's gotten pretty ugly in the past, and that's been over treasures that don't exist yet. I can't imagine that reviewing and correcting treasures which are already purchased by characters will be any easier.

These are questions I don't have answers to. Again, this isn't a "thing" yet, but fixing the Library is something that I would like to get done. The problem, quite bluntly, is this: how do we fix treasures when we know that people will protest against fixes? Anyway, I'm posting this because, like BP said, it's a good idea to make a post when we're thinking of doing something big. And I think I'd call fixing the Library pretty big.

If you have any ideas on how we could fix the Library, or if you think that the Library's fine and doesn't need fixing at all, or if you think I made a big mistake in posting this at all, please let me know. Thanks a lot!

When I personally managed the Library, I never ran into real complaints over making amendments to it. Although, of course, at that time I was the only one managing treasures at all, and we had far fewer member-made additions, so I suppose that made it easier for me. The way things have been going lately, I could see how people would get butthurt if I arbitrarily lowered the price of a treasure they made. (From what I've read, almost nothing desperately needs a price increase.)

While most of what we had of LoT2 was lost, I still have a summarized list of the changes I had made and the names of treasures I had added, and could easily make them again... assuming they don't overlap with changes made since January. But, what I think is the best possible solution is for everyone to be given a chance to affect change. To answer Quill's predicament as to what should be done, this is what I propose:

1) Initially, we have a site-wide discussion over what over-arcing changes should be made. Are tags worth it; is the pricing system fair; etc. Some people think less treasures is better, while I believe more is better. Individual opinions over specific treasures are to be accepted. The Library is built and maintained by everyone, and everyone should have a say.

2) I've found that large-scale work of this nature is best done by an individual in a draft form, then reviewed by a group. As the creator and (if I may make claim to this role) most-familiar of Librarians, I would like to take the opportunity to create from the existing Library a new version from scratch. Every existing treasure is re-evaluated, re-worded if necessary, and over-arcing changes are made to all of the treasures. I will document all of the changes made. This also means a great deal of the effort, the work, and (unfortunately) the blame could be absorbed by me. But, hey, I love this stuff.

3) When my work is finished, I would either (a) forward it to the second Librarian, Quill, for review, or (b) post it on Hyrule Castle in the open public eye for everyone to review. In this way, everyone could review every treasure, or only the ones they've submitted. If popular opinion declares I have erred in some way, then I will make effort to revert or alter that error to find popular approval. This reviewing process would invariably take time, and ideally continue until all parties were satisfied with the end result. Then and only then would LoT2 be put into effect, and replace the current LoT1. If a price increased, no harm would be inflicted upon those who already have the treasure. If a price decreased, then the recipient would immediately be granted refunded "quest rupees." Virtually no treasure should become so altered that anyone who has it would no longer want it (and, hey, that's what the review is for).

Hopefully, HC could still trust me to do something of this nature. Considering I don't even have an active character, I'd arguably have the least possibility of bias of almost anyone, to boot.

I've copy-pasted the changes summary I mentioned in my above post. Looking over them, some no longer apply (as I believe mounts work differently now, for example), but many are still relevant. This list seems to exclude several additions I had made, at least, as there were also several spells/techniques based on those uses by monsters or NPCs in Skyward Sword (including Impa's magical blue barrier, Techoblin's electric fork, etc).

Copy-Pasted LoT2 Changes from this January (open) Copy-Pasted LoT2 Changes from this January (close)

Big changes:
- Mount is completely revamped; Mounts and Pets are now collectively known as Companions.
- All treasures have added a "Companion requires" area if a companion can acquire the designated treasure.
- Fields have been vastly changed, mainly to make them more robust, significant, and easier to grasp.
- Metafields have changed as well. The first part determines whether or not a treasure is Canonical or Original (and the original author if it is original). The second determines whether the treasure's purpose is primarily Offensive, Defensive, or for Utility. The third and final part classifies the treasure as a Spell (ability of magic), Technique (ability of cunning or strength), Trait (ability that is always in effect), Song (ability which uses music to bring a spell-like effect), Magical Item, Mystical Item, Mechanical Item, or Material (used for crafting professions).
- Racial perks have been added. The vast majority of perks can be gained as normal treasures by anyone, but their favored race can gain them without rupee expense at creation, or can gain them later in questing at 10r less than normal cost. Many existing treasures have been made into racial perks, and numerous new treasures designed to be racial perks have been introduced.
- A character can now only use one "PerQuest"-field treasure per quest, to prevent stacking many different PerQuest effects for massive gain.
- Materials have been revamped, with many more added. Their effects remain similar, in some cases better defined. They are no longer "pound-based" and usually have a static cost for a single item.
- Several treasures which required prerequisites are now simply more expensive without the prerequisite(s), but not as expensive as the prequisite(s) plus the cost of the treasure itself.

Cost changes:
- Many treasures have had their X1 made equal to their X2 cost or otherwise reduced; some have had their X1 and X2 cost made equal to their X3 cost.
- Most Single-Use treasures have had their prices (approximately) halved.
- Most treasures which are now considered racial perks have been adjusted to be much less costly if the user has lower PWC. (In most affected cases, the cost difference between X5 and X1 is now only 20r.) As such, most have their costs altered, though in most cases the X5 cost is 5-10r away from what it was previously.
- Several treasures which had a X5 cost of 20r or 22r now have a X5 cost of 23r. This falls more in line with other treasures, and doesn't favor W5 characters more than other treasures would.
- Actor's Illusion is cheaper, to keep it line with similar treasures.
- Bomb Arrow is slightly more expensive, to keep it line with similar treasures.
- Bomb Bag has been made slightly more expensive, to keep it line with similar treasures.
- Boomerang Fins have changed cost. Effectivelly, they are 5r more expensive for P5 or C5 Zora, but substantially cheaper for all other Zora.
- Cane of Pacci is cheaper, given its effect is minor.
- Cane of Somaria's costs have been reduced, especially for those with lower Wisdom.
- Cannon's costs have been minutely altered, for balance.
- Compaction Pouch is drastically cheaper, and is now a racial perk option for Hylians (thus making it even cheaper for them).
- Crossbow is now 10r regardless of PWC, and no longer requires P2 to use. It's nearly a common-tier item, after all.
- Cross no longer requires C2 to use.
- Din's Burst has been made more expensive, for balance.
- Detox's costs have been slightly reduced.
- Dominion Rod's cost has been slightly reduced.
- The cost of Don Gero's Mask has been approximately halved.
- Elegy of Emptiness is considerably cheaper for characters with less Courage.
- Eruption is ~slightly~ more expensive.
- Fire Breath is now P-based, instead of being P-or-W-based. It is also a tad more expensive.
- Iron Boots' cost has been approximately halved. Their usefulness is rather limited, after all.
- Jabber Nut is now a racial perk, and thus considerably more expensive for non-Picori (though it's still a relatively cheap treasure).
- Gaia's Blessing has had its cost reduced by approximately 1/3.
- Gibdo Mask now costs a static 15r for everyone.
- Gnat Hat's cost has been reduced, especially for characters with less than P5.
- Goron Punch is acquirable by non-Gorons, and is now either of the same price or cheaper for Gorons, depending on PWC.
- Goron Roll is now based on Courage in addition to Wisdom, and its costs have been altered to fit in with most other racial perks. It is now slightly more expensive for W5, the same for W4, and less expensive for W3, W2, and W1.
- Handheld Illusion has approximately doubled in price, but is still a relatively cheap treasure, keeping it in line with similar treasures.
- Hawkeye's cost has been reduced, especially for characters with low Courage.
- Helm Splitter's rupee cost has increased by approximately 50%.
- Hurricane Spin's PWC cost has been reduced by roughly 1/4, assuming P5.
- Hover Boots are cheaper for Courage >= Power characters.
- Ice Enchantment is more affordable for Powerful characters.
- Ice Shot has doubled in cost, keeping it in line with similar spells and techniques.
- Jewel of Control has lower cost for characters with C5, C4, or P5.
- Light Enchantment is more affordable for Courageous characters. Its W4 costs now follow a pattern more similar to the other enchantments (and as such, its W4 and W3 costs have each increased by 20, while its W2 cost decreased by 20).
- Lens of Truth no longer requires W2 to use.
- Magic Boomerang's cost has been reduced by about 1/3.
- Magnet Gloves' cost has been reduced by about 1/3.
- Mask of Scents now costs a static 20r regardless of PWC.
- Mask of Truth has had its cost reduced by about 1/3.
- Mirror Shield has been reduced in cost. Its effect is nevery niche, after all, and is otherwise a common-tier item.
- Melee Magic's cost has been reduced by about 1/4.
- Mole Mitts have been halved in cost.
- Pegasus Boots are slightly cheaper.
- Powder Kegs, like most Single-Use treasures, now cost a static amount regardless of PWC score: 20 rupees.
- Powder Keg Supply has had its cost increased (by 25 to 50 rupees, depending on PWC) and is now the most expensive non-unique Major Treasure. Like all non-unique treasures without prerequisites, its cost enables it to be acquired at character creation, but only by a P5 character.
- Power Beam is slightly more expensive. Power Beam can be acquired more cheaply if the user already has Peril Beam, and vice versa.
- Power Bracelet's cost has been reduced by about 1/4.
- Quick Draw's cost has been reduced by about 1/4.
- Red Potions, like most Single-Use treasures, now cost a static amount regardless of PWC score: 10 rupees.
- Reflect's cost has been approximately halved.
- Sand Wand's cost has been reduced by approximately 1/4.
- Secret Medicine, like most Single-Use treasures, now cost a static amount regardless of PWC score: 20 rupees.
- Seed Shooter's costs are now based on both Power and Courage, as opposed to just Power.
- Sense's costs have been altered to fit in with most other racial perks. It is now slightly more expensive for C5, the same for C4, and less expensive for C3, C2, and C1.
- Shell Transfer, like the Commshell on which it is based, now has a static rupee cost regardless of PWC: 20 rupees.
- Skull Mask now has a static cost regardless of PWC: 10 rupees.
- Sky Cannon is considerably less expensive for characters with less than P4.
- Song of Healing is slightly more expensive, due primarily to gaining a new effect (in addition to its previous effect).
- Song of Storms' cost has been reduced by roughly 1/4.
- Spectacles of Agony have a reduced cost for characters with Wisdom lower than 5.
- Spinner's cost has been approximately halved. It's use, while buffed from canon, is still extremely niche.
- Jump Strike's cost has been halved, and can be acquared even with P1.
- Spin Attack's costs have been altered to fit in with most other racial perks. It is now slightly more expensive for P5 and P4, the same for P3, and less expensive for P2, and P1.
- The treaure formerly known as Sub-Specialty, now Aptitude, has had its cost halved.
- Transformation Mask costs a static 100r for anyone with P3 or less. It no longer requires the Song of Healing as a prerequisite, but having the Song of Healing reduces its cost.

Effect changes
- Many treasures have had typos and odd phrasings fixed to look better, without actually changing the effect (even minutely).
- All-Night Mask can now be modified to become a torture device of insomnia, in-line with canon descriptions.
- Fire, Ice, and Magic Bolt (previously known as Arcane Bolt) have had their "recharge time" cut from ~30 seconds to ~10 seconds, keeping their power closer to similar treasures.
- Fire Enchantment, Ice Enchantment, Light Enchantment, and Wind Enchantment can now be used more frequently for characters with Wisdom less than 5.
- Glit Glower has been significantly re-worded, though the essential effect should remain in place. (I'm still not sure why having golden/yellow eyes is a requirement, but 'kay.)
- Hurricane Spin: If the user has a Power of 5, they now are still dazed as normal, but can fully control the direction they take while spinning.
- Life now more clearly requires contact, and no longer cures poisons.
- Magic Proficiency, Valiance, and Warrior's Training now give a static 35 bonus XP at creation, instead of fluctuating with the character's PWC.
- Magic Rod now "may exhaust the user to the point of fainting if used in immediate succession," rather than "more than a few times a minute."
- Piece of Power and Plate of Power are now two separate treasures, and Plate of Power can be gained independently. It is less costly to forge a Plate from Pieces, rather than outright acquire the Plate as a standalone treasure.
- Song of Healing can now mend negative mind-affecting effects, in addition to its previous effect.
- Specialty now has an enhanced effect if the character already has 5 in the area of PWC it affects.
- Switch Hook now has a static cost of 50r, regardless of PWC.
- Thunderstomp was re-worded... so that its effect may be better understood.
- Transformation Mask has been reworded somewhat, mainly to fit racial perks better. It no longer requires the Song of Healing as a prerequisite.

Name changes
- "Arcane Bolt" was renamed to "Magic Bolt," mainly because the term 'arcane' is charcteristially never used in canon.
- "Sub-Specialty" has been renamed to "Aptitude."
- "Summon: Instrument 1" has been renamed to "Summon Instrument."
- "Summon: LikeLike" is now "Summon LikeLike."

Additions:
- Din's Power (standard; variant of Farore's Courage & Nayru's Wisdom)
- Ice Breath (standard; variant of Fire Breath)
- Magic Storm (major; canonically based on Ganondorf's attack in OoT)
- Major Gain (original: guy, previously posted in suggestion bin)
- Thunder Breath (standard; variant of Fire Breath)
- Shockwave (standard; canonically based on Ganondorf's attack in OoT)
- Shadow Ball (standard; canonically-based variant of Magic Bolt)
- Summon Shield (standard; canonically-based variant of Summon spells)
- Summon Keese (standard; canon)
- FlareCraft, ForestCraft/WoodCraft, WaterCraft (Major; original:guy, returning and revamping from HS by popular demand)

Anyway, please let me know if I can head up this project. I'd really like to get to work on it.

Soon