Fairy Arms (Review) (Open)

Because apparently I must have something pending at all times. This one I'm still pondering stuff about, such as if it's too powerful, or what the prices should be. Discussion begin for this one.



Also, I figure that with Fairy Arms, it's similar to Angels in terms of theme. Mysterious, graceful, protective, etc. And if the Fairy Sword is any indication, it's that fairy weapons are powerful. Would I add [Fairy] to the tags?


`Fairy Arms
Original:Tsubori, Magic-Tier - Defence
[Magical], [Blade], [Conjuration], [Protection], [Shield], [Wrist]

W5 - 30
W4 - 40
W3 - 50
W2 - 60
W1 - 120

By concentrating magical energy to their wrists, a pair of magical weapons appears on the back of the caster’s wrists in a flash of light. They are slightly transparent, showing their magical nature. These weapons are equally as durable as standard steel, though upon their summoning, any enchantment spell the user has may be instantly applied. The weapons take various forms, and when bought, the user may choose which level they wish. The treasure may be bought up to five times to obtain all the forms.

Having Fairy Arms active will slowly cause mental strain on the castor, making it so that they can only really have one form active for twenty minutes and requiring a forty minute cooldown afterwards. When one has access to multiple levels, they may use a few simultaneously, though this will greatly speed up the rate at which you lose energy.

The special effect for this spell is that the weapons created are capable of dispelling magic that they touch. This can dispel things like magical projectiles, barriers, and illusions. For example, an Arcane bolt blocked by a blade would fade away. This doesn’t stop all parts of a spread spell though, only parts it actually blocks. When this force strikes at a barrier or illusion, only parts within a foot of the strike will be dispelled, perhaps giving a wide enough point for entry, and the barrier will repair itself in a few moments. If the user's Wisdom is 5 then the dispel mechanic can work, with some strain, on even the toughest of spells. If the weapons make contact with an enchanted weapon, the weapon will be disenchanted, and the enemy will have to recast.


Level 1: A pair of short, wide daggers. These blades are ideal for parrying, but being short and mounted on the wrists, are slightly unwieldy for standard combat. This form of the spell is the easiest to use, good for anyone to utilize.
Level 2: A thinner, longer version than the previous. It has a curved-diamond shape on its tip, meaning these blades are meant for dextrous, swift motions, and while still meant for defence, are more effective for attacking than Level 1.
Level 3: Very similar to above, however, the end becomes three pronged, similar to a sai or trident. This version is great for disarming while retaining ability to parry, but can still be effectively used in combat in a pinch. Unfortunately, the weapon loses the diamond shaped tip, as three tips like that would be unwieldy.
Level 4: This level is dramatically different from the others. Instead of a blade, two bucklers are made on the back of the user wrists. While much more difficult to use in combat, these have by far the best defence of any level.
Level 5: Unlike any of the other levels, this one creates armor, as opposed to a weapon. The hands are covered by a pair of gauntlets, making this a great level for grabbing or catching. Due to it essentially acting as the user’s hands, the dexterity of this level is one of the highest, allowing for more intricate manoeuvres.

Re: Angel Arms (Review) (Open)

So I've actually talked with Eev a little bit further, and I feel that this treasure is not, in fact, done quite yet.

My major concern is two fold. The first major part is similar to what we've brought up in the past, where PWC is being used more of a stat system rather than a meta tag. Similar to previous examples, it's meant more to represent the aptitude of the person's skill rather than their raw ability (like the Kokiri to Goron example). For this reason I have a pretty major problem with having this skill evolve based on the evolutions of PWC. From a format level, it's just not really what we do in the library. The few cases where PWC affects the mechanics of a spell is often only at PWC5 and only in very slight manners that don't radically restructure a spell. This is essentially just a class system, except instead of leveling it via rupees, it's via PWC. From a practical level, up until W5 it's basically just a summon-magical-weapon spell, and I'd be surprised to find someone drop 70 rupees on that if not W5 to begin with.

My second major concern is tied in with this, it being that the treasure is ridiculously complicated and lengthy. While on the level of individual segments it's relatively simple, cramming this much variation into one treasure is usually something we stay away from. The fact that I don't like the tiered system is both because of the way PWC is used and simply because of the length.

So here is my requested solution, of which I've already talked to Eev about so unless Quill or Will have major qualms, I would like to see it this way.

I'd ask you to remove everything up to W5 and consolidate the treasure into just the template you've laid for W5. Whether you want sais or bucklers or whatever for the spell is up to you, and if you want to deflect magic or dispel magic or whatever is your call, but I would say basically just remove W1-W4 and act from there. Once it's at that point, then we can do costing variations ranging from W1-W5.


So now a minor point. As always we seek to keep our treasures in-line with Zelda and all that jazz, so given that this is (essentially) just from an anime, there are naturally some things that need to be messed around with. They're not deal-breakers, but we do enjoy perfection in our system when possible. Currently, the two things that probably need to go are:

1) The name. Zelda has demons, it has goddesses, but it has no angels. You can rename them goddess' wings, or just summoned blades, or whatever, but yeah

2) The incantation to summon shouldn't be necessary (at all) really. If you want your character to say it, that's fine, but I don't believe it should be required.

3) Feel free to keep it simple. I don't really need the exact sizes of something, or the way it materializes, or whatever. If other people chose to use this technique, having it be more generalized is always preferred.

Thanks!

Re: Angel Arms (Review) (Open)

Okay, I don't really see how one would say PWC is entirely meta-game. If you compare Barth (P5) to Phiorra (P1) And if I say Phiorra is much stronger than Barth, it simply doesn't make sense. The "Leveling" way the spell works is entirely based around "This person has the Aptitude to handle better intricacy for a spell". For that reason, I want to try to negotiate the levels staying. It doesn't break any rules, nor is it overpowered. Beyond that, I agree to the other things, with the incantation and exact dimensions being removed and name changed.

Re: Angel Arms (Review) (Open)

It may not be my place to speak as I am but a Regular member not a Mod or Admin, but I have been asked to take a look at this.

Okay the way I see it Ribitta you don't think that the treasure should change based on the character's wisdom score correct? Well since the treasure is magical in nature shouldn't someone who is better at magic (A higher Wisdom score) be able to do more and better things? The way I am reading the treasure is that the character has a wider range of abilities the treasure can use. In my opinion I prefer a treasure like that to a treasure that anyone can get, although at a higher cost at a lower PWC, that does the same thing no matter what the character's aptitude in said PWC category. I think that the higher the score the more powerful or intricate things the treasure should be able to do. Not just minor things like a shorter cool down or something like that at the absolute peak of that stat, but nothing for a 4 or a 3 which are both still above the average person.

So you don't want it to be like this because you simply don't like it? Correct me please if I'm wrong, but that's what I'm getting from what you said Ribitta. That in itself seems highly unfair don't you think? That's all I'm going to say about that.

So all in all you are asking Tsubori to practically rip apart this treasure and make it almost exactly like the standard summon spell? As I said I personally like the way it is now having significantly enough different abilities based on how adept at spells you are. For a little example let's take the Fire spell. Harry has a W of 5 and Jacob has a W of 2. It would cost Jacob more, but even though Jacob has had no experience he can technically use the spell just as well as Harry can when that is pretty much all Harry uses. With this treasure Harry would be able to do much more than Jacob because Harry knows spellcraft to a greater degree than Jacob.

I may be thinking of this all wrong and please correct me if I am wrong, but this is the way I am understanding this. I mean no offence to you personally Ribitta I am just simply stating my opinions about this by request. Please direct any problems you have with my post at no one, but myself. Thank you.
-Ultra5

Edited the original to fit Eev's descriptions he and I discussed yesterday.

This sounds like if the user has Fire Enchantment, he doesn't have to actually cast it, but he can choose for the weapons to appear with the F.E. automatically present. I don't think that fits; I like the idea of the weapons being able to have enchantments cast upon them, but I would imagine that the spells themselves still need to be cast.

What does this mean? Does it mean, like, a buckler on one wrist and a dagger on the other?

One final thing. This thing is really frickin long. If I have to scroll down to reach the bottom of the treasure, there's a problem. At its core, this treasure isn't that complicated.

"You can summon five different kinds of magic-dispelling weapons onto your wrists for twenty minutes, with a mandatory fourty minute cooldown between summoning. Here are the five kinds: dagger, rapier/short-sword (if you could find a name that would help), sai/trident, buckler, and gauntlet. When you buy the treasure, you can choose what kind you want. If you want more options, you can buy the treasure again."

There just seems to be so much clutter in this treasure... can you think of a way to cut it down a bit?

1) The thought process on that one was that with the parts being on the back of the wrist, it would be VERY unwieldy to actually have to put your hand on the weapon to enchant it. For example, if you're trying to tap a dagger to enchant it, you've got a chance you're going to stab yourself.

2) I feel that this Treasure NEEDS to be well explained. In the 'brief' explanation, there was a lot that was left out. Additionally, if you just list it off as "Daggers, shortswords, trident, bucklers, gauntlets" Nobody's going to see the point in getting multiple. If you describe the pluses and minuses of the weapons, people may see that they're better than they originally thought. I don't feel that I could cut it down without getting rid of important stuff.

Also, Yeah, what I meant was being able to wield two different ones at the same time.

yeah, I don't think that it's going to be possible to slim it down since we're keeping levels. Unless we were to split them up into 5 different treasures, then this is just going to have to be large.

I only have two minor things before I clear this for take-off.

1) I feel that the W1 cost should be a larger gap, as is typically done in the library. I would request 120 rupees.

2) There are some magical techniques (Such as Capture Staff) that create very, very strong barriers only broken down by a handful of listed devices. To alleviate confusion as to capability, if you could add a "If the user's Wisdom is 5 then the dispel mechanic can work, with some strain, on even the toughest of spells" I feel like that would be quite good.

As for the enchantment bit, I don't feel like it's that big of a deal. We're already magically summoning with its own set of costs, so getting your enchantment on their naturally not only feels fine, as far as power is concerned, but makes a certain amount of sense as well.

Edited. That all good then?

Guys?

Quill's been particularly busy and I've not gotten a chance to talk to him about one remaining thing. We haven't forgotten, but sorry for the wait nonetheless

Double posting and bumping this again.

While I said before that I thought this would be difficult to slim down at all, I'm going to retract that now. After talking with some of the other staff and to you on MSN, I feel like this can be slimmed down further. Quill paraphrased earlier, when I was talking to him, so I'll quote it now.

This description is very short and only about 400 characters, but it says everything that needs to be said about the treasure. If you want, you can expand on this a bit or re-write something of similar length, but I feel like we can have faith in the RPer to understand the merits of different weapons without needing to spend time describing each one.

Thanks for your patience!

This is probably the most I can cut it down, because as I said before in this thread, Quill's synopsis DID leave out a lot. I need to retain at least SOME description.


`Fairy Arms
Original:Tsubori, Magic-Tier - Defence
[Magical], [Blade], [Conjuration], [Protection], [Shield], [Wrist]

W5 - 30
W4 - 40
W3 - 50
W2 - 60
W1 - 120

By concentrating magical energy to their wrists, a pair of magical weapons appears on the back of the caster’s wrists in a flash of light. They are slightly transparent, showing their magical nature. These weapons are equally as durable as standard steel, though upon their summoning, any enchantment spell the user has may be instantly applied. The weapons take various forms, being daggers, rapiers, tridents, bucklers or gauntlets and when bought, the user may choose which level they wish. The treasure may be bought up to five times to obtain all the forms.

Having Fairy Arms active will slowly cause mental strain on the castor, making it so that they can only really have one form active for twenty minutes and requiring a forty minute cooldown afterwards. When one has access to multiple levels, they may use a few simultaneously, though this will greatly speed up the rate at which you lose energy.

The special effect for this spell is that the weapons created are capable of dispelling magic that they touch. This can dispel things like magical projectiles, barriers, and illusions. For example, an Arcane bolt blocked by a blade would fade away. This doesn’t stop all parts of a spread spell though, only parts it actually blocks. When this force strikes at a barrier or illusion, only parts within a foot of the strike will be dispelled, perhaps giving a wide enough point for entry, and the barrier will repair itself in a few moments. If the user's Wisdom is 5 then the dispel mechanic can work, with some strain, on even the toughest of spells. If the weapons make contact with an enchanted weapon, the weapon will be disenchanted, and the enemy will have to recast.

I have one thing I'd like to ask. Why did you come up with the name Fairy arms? To me it doesn't really seem to fit the item well given the context. In Hyrule Fairies are not typically associated with weapons, do you think you could possibly change the name to something a little more fitting?

EDIT: Ribs brought to my attention that he already made you change the name and suggested the Fairy Arms name. I still don't think it fits well. Perhaps something like "Wisdom Arms" or "Magic Arms" or something.

EDIT 2: Or even "Spirit Arms".

I'll change it once I'm off work, and I do like the sound of spirit arms, so I'll be changing it to that. Though I would like to note that Fairies have had their names in powerful weapons before, such as the Great Fairy Sword in Majoras mask, so they can be attributed to combat. I like Spirit arms though

I like Spirit Arms, too. And, I wasn't proposing that you adopt that synopsis, that was just to show that it was possible to trim the description down. You did a good job with it; it's much, much easier to read now.

I would, however, like to bring up the matter of cost. Most treasures have some level of price-acceleration between the different PWC scores, but this treasure has a 10r increase for all but W1. I think it's starting price is fine, but I would like to change the prices to:

W5: 30
W4: 45
W3: 65
W2: 90
W1: 120

It's a pretty simple "dC/dn=10+5n" thingamajjigy. lol sorry I just love Calc class SO MUCH I couldn't resist. DERIVATIVES Y U SO AWESOME???

But Quill, taking the anti-derivative of that equation gives C=10n + (5n^2)/2 + c, where c is a constant, which assuming n= 6-Wisdom, would give

W5: 12.5 + c
W4: 30 + c
W3: 52.5 + c
W2: 80 + c
W1: 112.5 + c

Regardless of the value of c, that's not what you put

PS: I thought the treasure was an "evolving" one where you got more abilities based on your Wisdom, not like 5 similar ones that are bought separately, ah well.

They disliked that idea so I had to change it. And screw you guys with yet math xD we all good then?


`Spirit Arms
Original:Tsubori, Magic-Tier - Defence
[Magical], [Blade], [Conjuration], [Protection], [Shield], [Wrist]

W5: 30
W4: 45
W3: 65
W2: 90
W1: 120

By concentrating magical energy to their wrists, a pair of magical weapons appears on the back of the caster’s wrists in a flash of light. They are slightly transparent, showing their magical nature. These weapons are equally as durable as standard steel, though upon their summoning, any enchantment spell the user has may be instantly applied. The weapons take various forms, being daggers, rapiers, tridents, bucklers or gauntlets and when bought, the user may choose which level they wish. The treasure may be bought up to five times to obtain all the forms.

Having Fairy Arms active will slowly cause mental strain on the castor, making it so that they can only really have one form active for twenty minutes and requiring a forty minute cooldown afterwards. When one has access to multiple levels, they may use a few simultaneously, though this will greatly speed up the rate at which you lose energy.

The special effect for this spell is that the weapons created are capable of dispelling magic that they touch. This can dispel things like magical projectiles, barriers, and illusions. For example, an Arcane bolt blocked by a blade would fade away. This doesn’t stop all parts of a spread spell though, only parts it actually blocks. When this force strikes at a barrier or illusion, only parts within a foot of the strike will be dispelled, perhaps giving a wide enough point for entry, and the barrier will repair itself in a few moments. If the user's Wisdom is 5 then the dispel mechanic can work, with some strain, on even the toughest of spells. If the weapons make contact with an enchanted weapon, the weapon will be disenchanted, and the enemy will have to recast.

I'm sad to say that we haven't gotten to anti-derivatives yet :(

BUT THEY LOOK TOTALLY AWESOME!!! Do they teach that in multi-variable Calculus or single-variable Calculus? I can't wait to learn about them! :-D

Ya, Tsu, this looks good.