Botanists: Improving Them

With the planned adjustments to the other crafting professions, the topic of Botany--and improving it--has been brought up. I would like to discuss this.

With the current materials available, the primary use of Botany is to cheaply create supplies of seeds--often with combined effects. Unfortunately, that's about where their usefulness ends, and there isn't much incentive to raise one's Botany level. So, at the very least, I feel they should be able to do a bit more than just that. As Cloud as said before, Outfitters make things you wear, and Weaponsmiths make things you wield, so Botanists should make things you consume for a one-off effect--buffs like seeds and potions, or possibly nerfs like poisons and acids. With that in mind, I have a few ideas...

1. I was thinking that instead of just making the same seed supplies everyone can have, they can create new effects using the same seeds. For instance, they could splice an Ember Seed to function similar to Scorching Socks, make a potion out of it that protects from flames, or maybe even make a spray-able oil that easily catches fire. Greater effects might require more seeds, and thus more Crafting levels.

2. Instead of just making Single-Use potions, they could make PerQuest potions, sort of like how Red Potions currently work. For example, combining a bunch of Pegasus Seeds and Gust Seeds might make a PerQuest "Flight Potion," that can only be used once per quest, but enables the drinker to fly for several minutes.

Crafting levels would, in this case, be useful for giving more uses to these PerQuest potions. If the materials to make a, let's say, "Mist Potion" costs 20 rupees, then a Botanist could make it starting at Lv2, right? If he was at Lv4, though--double the minimum requirement--he would be able to make double the amount of useable potion. Therefore he would have two separate Mist Potions from the same amount of 20 rupee materials. (He could keep both for himself to use two Mist Potions in the same thread, or give one to an ally.) Similarly, at Lv6, he could make three of these potions from the same amount of materials.

3. Although this fall behind Seed Supplies and PerQuest items, perhaps--and I believe Eevachu came up with this idea--could craft seeds for things that spontaneously grew? They could, for example, make a seed that cases a Baba Blant to grow--or, if they mixed Gale Seeds in, something like a Peahat? Of course there could also be original ideas involved, like a plant that spat Deku Nuts at anyone who came to close, or a plant that grew into a beanstalk-like ladder. I guess ultimately these would just be another form of Supplies or PerQuest items, but, hopefully it's food for thought.

4. As something that separates Botany from the other crafts, I was also thinking that they could earn a special side-ability like Seed Collector. For example, for every three levels of Botany you have, you can earn a free seed in every quest/dungeon?

5. Of course, when possible, I'd like to include ideas from Will's old Alchemist profession, and any good new ideas anyone can create.


Ultimately, I guess, it comes down to the fact that we Guy needs to make more Botanist Materials. That said, I'd at least like to get a feel for some good concepts. Thoughts? Ideas?

These are all pretty neat ideas, particularly 2 and 3. I admit to being a little biased against Single Use treasures, so I'm all for an increased focus on PerQuest and Supply-type stuff.

As for new Botanist Materials, I talked with Will a couple of days ago about the possibility of Botanist materials being applied to other materials. The most obvious example that comes to mind would be poisons (By my reckoning, any character could have a poisoned sword as generic equipment, but especially exotic and potent varieties would be crafted by a Botanist), but I also wonder if we could make oils and salves that alter the properties of particular substances, like wood or metal. If we want to encourage interaction between the crafting professions, then maybe Botanists could trade such things to Outfitters and Weaponsmiths?

Or, if that would be stepping a bit too much on the toes of Outfitter/Weaponsmith materials themselves, maybe these "applied" products could function like PerQuest treasures? Like, say... a powerful acid that corrodes metal at a rapidly accelerated rate, allowing you to weaken a foe's armour or destroy the padlock on a door? A potion that makes wood highly flexible, so you can bend it more easily? That sort of thing. If nothing else, I think transmutation-themed Botany materials would be an interesting avenue to explore, given the alchemical roots of the profession.

So. I've begun officially making Library edits to reflect Outfitter, Weaponsmith, and "new" Botanist.

Here is how "new" Ember Seed Supply would look. It's mostly the same, and usable as the same treasure.

Here is how an individual Ember Seed, the material, would look. You can see this allows combinations with numerous other seed types for numerous other effects.

I currently plan to include roughly 18 different seed types from existing treasures, plus the recently-suggested Gasha Seed, Barbed Seed, and Acid Seed. Oh, and Breath Seeds. (I realized Skulltula Paste already does what Sticky Seeds do on their own, and I'm planning for Stinky Seeds to be an alternate effect for Scent Seeds.) Most of the Seeds to be used are associated with one field or type of effect, as Ember Seeds are obviously based around fire. Anyway, these 20+ seed-materials should all be getting a similar treatment soon. Botanists should have plenty of stuff to do.

Coincidentally, I've followed through with Darth's idea about oils and "applied" products, and want to make more poisons as well (but couldn't think of many that are appropriate to the fire theme). I've already begun the #1-4 of my earlier post, and need to do some research to incorporated #5. (I'm pretty sure there was a "Flame Tube" potion, for starters...)

Anyway, I am mostly posting this because if I'm doing something incredibly wrong and stupid, I want someone to tell me now and not after I spend hours and hours working on this.

I love the new versions, Guy. I can really see some cool or useful applications for them that make botanists very versatile in dungeons, battles, or even a utility role. Great job! I particularly like how the supply is not 'pure' enough for a Botanist to work with; it makes sense and alleviates something I always felt was kind of random in-universe although I understand why it had to be limited.

I am a little confused on the "By using three Ember Seeds, along with at least three other seeds," thing, though. I understand that the combination isn't specific, but do we have to use three different seeds, three of the same seed, or any combination? Maybe I'm nitpicking, but maybe it'd be worth it to clarify that.

Thanks! I appreciate it.

I had intended that...
- You need at least three seeds of one type to make an effect.
- If you used 3 Ember Seeds and 3 Crackle Seeds, you could put an effect from both into the supply.
- If you used 6 Ember Seeds, you could put two Ember Seed effects into the supply.
- If you used, say, 3 Ember Seeds and 1 Gale Seed, 1 Pegasus Seed, and 1 Scent Seed, you could still make a supply, but you would only be able to put in an alternate Ember effect at most.
- If you used 3 Ember Seeds, 3 Crackle Seeds, and 3 Chill Seeds, you could put an effect from all three into the final product.

I mean, I think it makes sense, but I'm finding it difficult to communicate that both briefly and clearly. I thought it would be best for only the Botanist page would have to go deep into the details of it, rather than copy-pasting a paragraph into all 18-or-so seed pages. (Needless to say, I still need to finish up the Botanist page.)

Oh, if it's explained on the Botanist page, then it's fine. As long as this information is easily available; put like this, it does make a lot of sense.

I said nuthin'