Hello everyone! Hope your plot dungeon threads are going well. With the first of the current ones already done, and the other two being worked on, I figured I'd ask this sooner rather than later. I've already seen some suggestions for what characters should be which sage, but I'd like them all in one place. So, what I'd like you to do is post below, suggesting any character (yours or otherwise) that you think should be any of the Sages from the following: Light, Shadow, Spirit, Forest, Fire, Water. As much as I wish I could keep track of each character, and each player, this will really help me narrow things down. It should be noted that a person can only have one sage character, so I won't "award" more than one sage title to any given person. For those members that may not be aware, I've been running a site-wide plot for some time now, and the details of the current three dungeons can be found here. As was suggested above, this current portion of the plot will directly lead to the awakening of six of the seven sages, all of which will be chosen from the current player characters of active members. It should be noted that any character of any active member is pretty much fair game (save for my own), so feel free to suggest your own characters, or any for that matter.
I think something that would help people choose candidates for sages in the first place (or at least, chip in their opinion/vote) would be to first more or less define what each element represents. For instance, Light (as far as we can tell within its Ocarina of Time representative, Rauru) means someone opposed to evil, most likely (but not necessarily) lawful, and so on and so forth. But what sort of traits/characteristics does Forest, Spirit, or Shadow represent? Moreover, how far can we define these traits without immediately narrowing the choosings down to a small pool of characters whom, most likely, fit that element to a T? When/if we can get a general feel for what each sage is supposed to represent is when I'll offer my opinion on who to be for what sage. Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler Even if Guy hasn't posted in a while, it mite b cool for Tent to be the Sage of Fire.
Honestly, I'd like to keep things a bit more open and nebulous than the games did. All we had, really, in Ocarina of Time, is pretty much the location of where these sages were from, and how that correlated to which sage they became. So yes, I suppose it's a good idea to roughly define them. Note that these are only my interpretations, and those of you that post are welcome to give your own input, and I will certainly take that into consideration. Light: I suppose this would be fairly close to what Cloud imagined, as someone diametrically opposed to evil. Moreover, I think it would be someone who finds value in truth, and while they might generally be considered good, they don't necessarily need to be naive. On the other hand, a sage of light could be particularly strict, with little tolerance for anything remotely immoral. A sage of light would be a suitable title for a dutiful knight, or even a simple monk. Shadow: A shadow sage might be comfortable with pragmatism and reality, perhaps committing small "necessary evils" for the greater good. They could also be particularly adept at hiding things, or finding and using that which is hidden. Might also be a cynic. On the other hand, though, a sage of shadows might be a particularly empathetic individual, having an understanding of the pitfalls of a moral rigid code. A shadow sage would befit anything from a noble thief, to a skilled and ruthless politician. Spirits: A sage of spirits might have a strong connection to the past, be it through their ancestors, or through their race as a whole, and would generally respect history and the past. Moreover, the sage of spirits might be possessed of a particularly strong will. A sage of spirits could be anything, ranging from the village shaman, to a venerable historian. Forest: The sage of forest's defining personality might be a strong connection to nature and the earth, and while their worship may be similar to that of a spirit sage and their ancestors, a forest sage might even be inclined to venerate all life. However, a sage of the forest might also see the exploitation of lands and their denizens as a destructive act, and may also actively be against such things. A sage of the forest might be inclined towards professions such as forest guide, or animal tamer. Finally, a forest sage might worship Farore. Water: A sage of water could possibly have a strong connection to healing magic, as well as any water or ice related magic. They could also be more adept at defensive techniques: a sage of water could range anywhere from being a stalwart defender, to a kind healer. A sage of water's personality could lean towards several types: potentially tempestuous and fickle, or gentle and kind, perhaps even both. The sage of water might also worship Nayru. Fire: A sage of fire might be particularly adept at destructive magic (not necessarily fire magic alone), or might have a violent streak. Though not necessarily evil, a fire sage could also be more chaotically inclined, or quick to anger. On the other side of things, a fire sage could even be exceedingly boisterous, or highly charismatic. A fire sage could be anything from a violent soldier on the battlefield, to a commanding master chef. They might also have a particular connection with Din.
EDIT: I got ninja'd by Will, so not all of my recommendations are in-line with how he just explained the various elements. I'm going to just.... plug in my choices. Cloud's character, Julius, might seem an odd choice for this element -- but -- I believe he would make a good Shadow Sage. Probably the most active single character on the site. Ignoring his gender, he is probably more similar to Impa than any character coming to my mind. Despite being a captain of the Hyrule Guard with good intentions, he notoriously goes on adventurers with known theives and serial killers, and often does what he believes in right in not always honorable matters. I could also see him as the Sage of Spirit, to a lesser extent. Guy's character, Tent Emberwood, would make a good Fire Sage. Fire? Fire. So much Fire. He belongs to one of the most historically active players. Honorable, honest, and with flaming punches, he has more in common with Darunia's personality than one would ever expect of a Deku Scrub. (Sienna is too evil for a sage. At best, Guy Denzrita is about as kind as Nabooru. Tent is obnoxiously good-natured, though.) Blonde Panther's character, Autumn, seems like a good Forest Sage. I don't quest with BP much, but she is literally the most active member overall, and one of her most active characters literally calls herself the Guardian of the Lost Woods. Squishy definitely deserves a sage character, but I almost never quest with her, so I'm not sure who would be best. Leskar seems like a decent candidate for Light, and Silas Longfellow seems a decent choice for Shadow. I think Chaos James deserves a spot. His most used character, Nicholas Walker, doesn't seem to exemplify any element strongly... maybe Spirit? His second most used, Terentia Fortuna, also seems to be leaning Spirit. His third, a pyromancer named Freeja, is an obxious candidate for Fire Sage if anything. I haven't plugged anyone for Water. Hmm. I know Blonde Panther has one character who is extremely focused on ice, so that might be a good choice in lieu of Autumn becoming the Sage of Forest... Really, there isn't someone I can think of who really exemplifies the element, nor has much in common with Ruto. (Of the six canon sages though, Ruto seems the least worthy of their title in my mind anyway.) Coincidentally, this is all assuming no one person will have multiple Sages. (Otherwise I ttly would have plugged Buzzari for Bee Sage.) EDIT2: In response to Will's descriptions, I would also plug Squish's character Leskar for Spirit as well as Light. Generally any of the "really friggin' old" characters seem like they would make sense for Spirit, including most of the Great Fairies (Arifa, Leskar) as well as one Kokiri (Rika). I still can't think of a healing-centric Water character that is still active, though I'm sure one exists.
Oh geez, what a thing to discover minutes before an important exam Nominations, eh? Well, I do have a few suggestions that I feel more strongly about than others, so bear with me as I explain. As I've indicated in the past and seconding Guy, I'd like to offer up my Autumn for the position of Forest Sage. She's been living her entire life in service to the Lost Woods and the spirits/beings/powers that inhabit and control them, and tolerates neither trespassers nor transgressions against them. Admittedly, that's only one small portion of Hyrule, only one of its big forests, even, but she knows and understands the Lost Woods better than perhaps anyone else, and has been known to leave them to deal with threats. Although her loyalty lies with that particular area, to protect Hyrule is to protect the Lost Woods. A minor drawback to making Autumn the Sage of the Forest might be that she's unaccustomed to the company of humans, so working in unison with her fellow Sages will not come as naturally to her as it would to someone else. Similarly, it's no secret that Squishy has her sights set on the position of Shadow Sage for one of two of her characters. First is Silas Longfellow, her Sheikah. When protecting Hyrule requires methods that are either morally ambiguous or objectionable, the Sheikah come in, and Silas is no exception to that. He’s a good person at heart, and doesn’t enjoy his shady jobs, but he’s failed once and his brother suffered the consequences for that failure; knowing this and not wanting it to happen again, he is able to ignore his conscience and carry out any task as long as it is for the greater good. Between his race and his profession, he's basically Impa 2.0 with a penis and a sense of humour. Second is Fion Tivan, her Twili. He doesn’t fit into the description Willow gave above quite as well as Silas and maybe others, but hear me out here. Shadow feels a little different from the other elements, at least to me. The others are either neutral or considerably positive, but Shadow feels... off. It always seemed to me that it was closer to the feared darkness than everything else, something that didn’t really -belong- in the ranks of the sages. Similarly, Fion would be the odd one out in a roster of sages otherwise entirely native to Hyrule, the World of Light. Additionally, as a Twili, he is quite possible the most attuned to Shadows and Darkness out of all player characters, barring perhaps Dark Affinity characters or Shadow Specialists. I think either of these two characters is well worth considering for the position. Meanwhile, I know he's not the most active roleplayer we have, but I think Darth Slaverus's Judith Vilcaron would be a great fit for the position of Water Sage, especially considering Willow's description of the element. As a member of the Cult of Nayru, she is the single most devoted Player Character when it comes to worshipping the Goddess of Wisdom, and as her religious order decrees she focuses on healing and protective magic. What's more, she relies primarily on Water-and Ice-related magic to defend herself, considering Water to be the element of Nayru. It would be an indirect connection to the element, but one that I nonetheless think would be fitting. Should this connection be too strenuous, however, Judith could alternatively be fitting as the Sage of Light. Her rigid worship of Nayru has led her into a strict religious and moral code, as well as a ravenous hatred of evil and blasphemy. Her focus on healing and protection in her magic works in her favour here as well. Stipulations exist, however, namely that her single-minded devotion to Nayru means she does not worship the three Golden Goddesses equally, and that she is fanatical to a fault; considering the Rito and Zora as ‘less’ because they worship ‘impostor gods.’ Edit: I'm not sure if this affects your judgment at all, but after talking to the man himself, Darth has indicated that he feels Judith would feel less unsure of herself as the Sage of Light than she would as the Sage of Water, although he agrees either would fit her. I’ve personally yet to RP much with him, but Cloud’s Julius Surgate is definitely a candidate for Sagehood. Unlike Guy, though, I’d sooner put him in the position of Spirit Sage. From what I understand, Julius uses the diary of one of his ancestors to guide him in his personal endeavours and his blacksmithing, as well as more recently and explicitly in Starsend, to help him decipher the meaning behind the portals and alternate dimensions that make up the current plot dungeons. Additionally, he’s the oldest non-damn-near-immortal-race character on the site. Alternatively, he could be a fitting Light Sage, as a dutiful knight. However, if what Guy said is accurate (and I know Guy well enough to take it as such), then his methods aren’t always 100% Lawful Good, so that may be up for debate. I have no real nominations for a Fire Sage, but seeing Guy’s argumentation above me, I’d like to second the notion of his Tent Emberwood for this position. He seems like a good guy, and the idea of a Deku Scrub as Sage of Fire is amazing. Those are my main suggestions, but there are some ‘alternatives,’ if you will, in case Autumn is not chosen as the Sage of the Forest or Silas/Fion not chosen as the Sage of Shadow. First, Squishy has Leskar, the Great Fairy of Justice. Hung up on the respect he used to get from mortals in days long past, he works his hardest to command that respect once more, but is generally just frustrated that people don’t recognize him anymore. Still, despite his default solution to problems being ‘punch it,’ he’s a good guy at heart. I’d consider him for either Spirit or Light. I mean, come on. The guy’s the Great Fairy of Justice. For my own characters, the most fitting Sage candidate other than Autumn is Lamia, specifically as Sage of Fire. Lamia is fire- it flows through her veins and consumes her if she’s not careful. In addition, she is a devout worshipper of Din. However, her inexperience may work against her. Do note that Lamia is only my second choice, and if given the choice myself I would rather have Autumn as the Sage of the Forest. I would like to add a note to Guy’s idea of perhaps nominating Luna as the Sage of Water. While I appreciate the thought, I do not think she fits the position, seeing as her magic is exclusively Ice-based. In our world, water and ice are the same thing, just in a different state, but in Zelda, they’ve always felt as separate elements. As sweet as it would be to have Luna fill such an important position in the world, it wouldn’t feel right to me and I’d rather see it go to someone who’s better suited to it. I... think that’s all for now. I may add more later, I keep having the feeling I forgot something. Buzzari for Bee Sage needs to be a thing, if only as a honorary title.
Oh god prepare for loads and loads of words. As for Light: My first thought would be Julius. He might work with morally questionable characters, but he does seem like the person with an unwavering devotion to what is right. Perhaps his methods aren’t always legal, but he is vehemently opposed to anything that sides with Ganon and evil. I mean all sages will probably fight against evil, but light seems the more… dedicated to it? Sage of spirit would also be an option for him, as the theme of ancestors is quite strong in his backstory? His connection to his grandfather through the journals, and one of his ancestors having sealed away his family’s magic which he tries to undo, it all fits nicely with the theme. Also, with all the bullshit that he’s been through the mere fact he’s still going strong at his age speaks of an insanely strong will. Shadow: an entirely unbiased and surprising choice for either Fion or Silas, I’d say. Fion is a Twili, and basically an embodiment of shadow, so there’s that. He might be a little timid, but when pushed enough there’s nothing he will stop at to achieve what he wants or has to achieve. He’s also an adept at hiding things (mainly himself) and after Moonshadow, finding things as well. Although it might be a bit weird considering he's not from Hyrule. I'm not entirely sure how much everything is connected. The description as Will has it fits Silas quite well. Silas knows the “necessary evils” of his job are, in fact, necessary, but is willing to do them if it will serve the greater good; Hyrule and its royal family. (And like BP said, he’s a Sheikah too, that makes him shady/shadowy by default.) I feel his character combines pragmatism and empathy, he knows that what he might do is wrong, but he also knows that it will help more people in the long run, and tries to do what is best for everyone. Like Fion, he has a strong “the end justifies the means” mentality, willing to bend or break rules if that means he can carry out his mission, or if that would lead to a better outcome for more people. Spirit: Not entirely sure on this one, though as I said Julius might fit this, though I would sooner place him with light. It just feels like it’d fit him the best? Guy could also maybe fit here. Forest: Autumn, no doubt there. I suppose Rika might fit in a way, but Autumn just screams “Forest” in her entire character concept. Water: This is a tricky one, nothing immediately comes to mind. I know DevilSteel has Hanno, who would fit, but I don’t know how active the character is. Otherwise… Triton could be a good choice? He’s peaceful and has a protective streak (which for me came out clearest in Moonshadow), but is fierce in defending others. He also has a deep hunger for knowledge, which would connect him to Nayru. Another option could be Judith. She seems to fit the serene, wise traits quite well? This element really is a tough one for me to say anything on, really. Fire: Tent or Wiki. If we value the safety and sanity of the other sages, Tent would probably be the best choice. Wiki has the violent streak, is quick to anger, loves to set stuff on fire and is generally chaotic. But Tent is literally a fire mage. And less homicidal as far as I'm aware. As for the suggestions concerning Leskar. I’m really not sure how well Leskar would work as a sage, he does fit both light and spirit as this extremely strict and justice-obsessed person, not to mention his connection with the past is that he is literally stuck in the past with his thinking. It’s just really not my personal preference :’) I’d just really prefer fion or silas for shadow than leskar for spirit or light haha
Oh I guess I do need to post actual suggestions. Alright. Light: I really don't want to plug my own character so I'm going to nominate Gabriel, BP's prophet/light mage, as the sage for this category. If you've looked at his sheet, it's obvious why someone would put him down here. Forest: BP's Autumn is the most likely candidate here. A second completely serious suggestion is Buzzari; he considers himself a bee, without bees pollination (and therefore plant reproduction) is impossible. Again, I'm being completely legitimate with this suggestion. Water: I feel that either Judith (even if Darth might not be the most active player) or Hanno could fit here. Judith, as mentioned in BP's post, is a specialist in healing/protective magics... Which all happen to have some basis with water. Also is generally a serene, calm individual. One of Nayru's most devout followers. Fire: Tent, I feel, would make an excellent Sage of Fire. While not necessarily inherently chaotic, he is one of the most definite fire characters even on HC, and certainly one of Din's most devout followers. I don't have a particular suggestion beyond Tent, however. Shadow: I feel like Silas, Sirius, or any of a number of the sneaks that are on HC could potentially fill this role-- even Guy. Spirit: Uhhh. Uhmm. Yeah I'm not sure who could hold this role. Given Julius' connection to the past through his ancestor's journal, his interest in history all around Hyrule, and his immense willpower... I know I said I'd try to not plug my own characters, but unless someone has another suggestion... Perhaps Guy might also be a candidate for this.
NooooooooooooOooooOooo.... Noooooo if just for the sake of Tent not offing himself when he heard abo-- nvm I'm backing this. Joking. I've never really been of the opinion that active player characters should have titles or roles that are spiritual/make them icons/etc. Never really rubbed me the right way on other sites. The part of me that loves to haggle would personally enjoy the mandatory retirement of a character after they're picked as sages. After all they all sort of peace out to the heavens/locked in a temple/not around in most games right? My nomination is "And you too are an NPC" because I really don't want to make it seem like I'm shoving characters to not be playable because I don't like them or something.
I don't have a complete nomination list, and I think it just apes what I've said in the past: Forest Sage - Rika, because he just comes to mind when I think of the role, but I doubt he's the best choice of the characters available. I do take some satisfaction in imagining Rika having to deal with the whole ordeal of needing to CARE about people. ;D Light Sage - Julius has always been my go to thought, though I can see the argument for Spirit as well. He just seems like the natural choice in the role of Light though. Fire Sage - Tent, but I mean, you don't get much more "Fire" than that, lol. I'm stuck for the rest though, mainly because my breadth of knowledge on other characters is limited, though looking at a the list of active characters that Guy made leads to some plain-to-pick-out choices, if need be. Speaking of which, wanna link that list, Guy, so people can have a run down of it?
Okay so it occurred to me, (and I got some good feedback) that Sages could be implemented in a certain way. As throughout the Zelda series they are usually shown becoming spirits, being sent to a holy chamber, or some mixture of both. (they're even seen becoming wisps to travel at the end of OoT) I figured a good way to come to a compromise is for the sage candidate to give up their worldly possessions and stay in the chamber, save for one important detail. They would then be able to appear before PCs as transparent spirits to give the current PCs really useful tips, advice, and perhaps some higher knowledge. The Sage then remains in their chamber to pray to grant powers against evil to the heroes below. Their helpful spirit would be unbound by mortal means and able to help almost anyone they deem worthy.
